so why exactly is MS still charging us $50 a year for live? [enough arguing]

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[quote name='Serpentor']It's pointless to argue really... You like apples or oranges? If apples are free and oranges cost 1 cent, which one you want?

Anyway, here are my two cents:

1. Stop bitching about deals to get Xbox yearly Live under $50. As long as you're paying more than 1 penny, it's not free. You can brag about the deals, but that's YOU. And please don't call people lazy or stupid if they don't get the deal like YOU did.

2. On-line is on-line gaming, no, Netflix and demo shits are not what the paying service is all about. Silver members can't DL demos before Gold members is all bullshit. You're ultimately paying to play on-line, WAKE up! No, you should not be paying to get "early" access to demos, rental services etc...

3. All depends who are your gaming buddies... If your friends are in the Xbox world, hell, paying $100 a year probably not a problem for you.

4. It's all about how you manage your gaming time people! If you find that most of the time you're not playing on-line due to your working schdule, then Live is probably not the best investment. If you don't play on-line at all, you're basically paying Live for "early" demo and netflix, which is a ripoff...


EDIT: defining "early" - Gold members get to DL demos before Silver members. So, if you're a Silver member of the Live service, you're treated even lower than the FREE PSN service, think about that![/QUOTE]

You managed to be wrong about everything you said. It's not comparing apples and oranges where apples are 1 cent and oranges are free. It's comparing a $40 fruit basket to a free rotten orange.

1. You can say don't complain about people who don't get the deal but the fact remains they're either lazy or stupid. Multiple times throughout the year you can find a deal to get xbl for $35 with very little effort. If you don't get it when its on sale you are lazy or stupid. Or if you can't swing $35 maybe gaming isn't for you.

2. You realize you basically said "yeah it cost $50 a year because its full of content like netflix and early acceess to demos but that doesn't count!"?

3. Yeah what system your friends play on is a big deal but you forget to mention that the netcode for almost all games is 100x better on Xbox live than on PSN. Also, everyone having a headset and being able to party up is a big deal.

4. You're right about this but thats a no brainer. "If you're not gonna use live you're being ripped off!". Well yeah.
 
[quote name='Maklershed']You managed to be wrong about everything you said. It's not comparing apples and oranges where apples are 1 cent and oranges are free. It's comparing a $40 fruit basket to a free rotten orange.

1. You can say don't complain about people who don't get the deal but the fact remains they're either lazy or stupid. Multiple times throughout the year you can find a deal to get xbl for $35 with very little effort. If you don't get it when its on sale you are lazy or stupid. Or if you can't swing $35 maybe gaming isn't for you.

2. You realize you basically said "yeah it cost $50 a year because its full of content like netflix and early acceess to demos but that doesn't count!"?

3. Yeah what system your friends play on is a big deal but you forget to mention that the netcode for almost all games is 100x better on Xbox live than on PSN. Also, everyone having a headset and being able to party up is a big deal.

4. You're right about this but thats a no brainer. "If you're not gonna use live you're being ripped off!". Well yeah.[/QUOTE]

This.
Serpentor is wrong on every one of his points and is rationalizing.
You forgot to mention that you're likely to see twice as many online gamers on XBL vs PSN for any multi-platform title in the US when comparing your apples to oranges.
 
[quote name='Serpentor']EDIT: defining "early" - Gold members get to DL demos before Silver members. So, if you're a Silver member of the Live service, you're treated even lower than the FREE PSN service, think about that![/QUOTE]


Last time I checked if you wanted "exclusive" content (certain demos, beta access, etc) on PSN you had to pay for Qore every month for $2.99 or yearly for $24.99 (which happens to be how much my current 13 months of Xbox Live cost me). So, your free service (Silver) requires payment to access exclusive content (Gold). [quote name='Serpentor']think about that![/QUOTE]
 
[quote name='mac101010']Sometimes I do wonder if Xbox Live is even worth $50... the majority of players are $$$s[/QUOTE]
This is such a stupid thing to include in a list of complaints against Xbox Live. How does it have anything to do with the service at all?
 
[quote name='Malik112099']Last time I checked if you wanted "exclusive" content (certain demos, beta access, etc) on PSN you had to pay for Qore every month for $2.99 or yearly for $24.99 (which happens to be how much my current 13 months of Xbox Live cost me). So, your free service (Silver) requires payment to access exclusive content (Gold).[/QUOTE]

There hasnt been a exclusive demo/beta like that in a loooooooooooooooooooooooooong time on Qore. But ether way, if you bought Qore, they gave you free games.
 
[quote name='h3llbring3r']This.
Serpentor is wrong on every one of his points and is rationalizing.
You forgot to mention that you're likely to see twice as many online gamers on XBL vs PSN for any multi-platform title in the US when comparing your apples to oranges.[/QUOTE]

Pointless argument though since you won't be playing with all of them at once.
 
[quote name='Maklershed']
3. Yeah what system your friends play on is a big deal but you forget to mention that the netcode for almost all games is 100x better on Xbox live than on PSN. Also, everyone having a headset and being able to party up is a big deal.
[/QUOTE]

I have to disagree with you on this one mak
 
wow, i manage to get wrong on every one of my cents...

anyhow, 1 penny is still not free, damn people, which part of the deal you don't understand? You can bitch about $20, $30, $40 yearly Live all you want, but still for the F bomb's sake, you're still paying!

The question in discussion is, should you pay to play on-line? AND for the billionth time, the other Live features are not in question here. If you pay Live just for Netflix and demo before Silver member, then that's your problem. Most people pay Live to play on-line.

As to talking to your friends while gaming, sigh, it's not a Live only thing... Yeah yeah, the next thing you're going to say is, headset... The point being, you don't need to pay yearly or monthly fee to do that.

Also, let's just be clear here, NOBODY pays $50 for Live here, not CAGs! It's a freaking clear and obvious fact. Don't you guys/gals ever take the title as a statement?!?! The matter of fact is, if you're not paying $50, you're still paying $20... You can rationalizing $20/365 days all you want, but the fact is, you're still paying to play on-line.

Think of this, why can't Silver member play on-line for free? As to Netflix and other goodies, the Gold member can have them. Simply put, Silver members are the scums of the Xbox community...
 
[quote name='Malik112099']Last time I checked if you wanted "exclusive" content (certain demos, beta access, etc) on PSN you had to pay for Qore every month for $2.99 or yearly for $24.99 (which happens to be how much my current 13 months of Xbox Live cost me). So, your free service (Silver) requires payment to access exclusive content (Gold).[/QUOTE]

This is bullshit, excuse me for the language, but you know it!

Qore is a subscription service, of course you have to pay, duh! I'm talking about Batman demo and any other regular released demos. If you're Silver, you can't download the Batman demo till one or two weeks later. On PSN, you don't have this kind of crap.

You don't need Qore to be able to DL Batman demo...
 
[quote name='Rocko']This is such a stupid thing to include in a list of complaints against Xbox Live. How does it have anything to do with the service at all?[/QUOTE]

Because if you just want to jump into a quick game without trying to round up friends, you're often greeted with these morons. It's a valid point to make when discussing the service.

However, it is definitely NOT something exclusive to XBox Live. Someone can't say "you don't experience that on PS3/PC/whatever." There are idiots everywhere.
 
[quote name='whoknows']Pointless argument though since you won't be playing with all of them at once.[/QUOTE]
Obviously (pointless statement).
The statement has more to do with longevity of each game's online play and the ability to easily find a game.
 
[quote name='whoknows']Pointless argument though since you won't be playing with all of them at once.[/QUOTE]

No, but it should mean that match making is faster (more people to be matched with) and that the community will stay active longer since it's larger.
 
I've never really had an issue with matchmaking so that's a non-issue, for me at least.

And is there a game out there that still has an active community on 360 that no one is playing on PS3?
 
[quote name='whoknows']Pointless argument though since you won't be playing with all of them at once.[/QUOTE]


Yeah but the more people that are playing a game, the greater chance of getting into a locally hosted game and getting a really good connection.

Example: If I play COD on a Friday night, I will end up in games with other people on the Northeast coast of the US, and we will all have a good connection.

If I play COD at 7 in the morning, I'm much more likely to get stuck in games with Brits and other Europeans. Nothing against those guys, but playing a FPS with people on another continent kinda sucks.

So yeah. the larger the community for a game the better, even if you only play with 15 of them at a time.
 
[quote name='Serpentor']Simply put, Silver members are the scums of the Xbox community...[/QUOTE]HEY! I TAKE OFFENSE TO THAT!:lol::lol::lol:

I'd have gold if the wireless adapter wasn't $100. Seriously, it's the only thing Live-related that is incredibly overpriced. $50(or less) is pretty reasonable for a year of a service you use for several hours a week.
 
I like to add another cent to the "longevity" of the on-line community for a particular game. Simply put, paying $20-$50 a year don't guarantee the game's on-line "longevity." The mass amount of players can easily shift to a different game. Of course, it's still a safer bet than a smaller on-line community. However, unless the game is like international chess, its on-line life span is finite (if not, your life span is finite).

What the hell i'm trying to say? I rather focus enjoying the game than worry about the game's on-line support goes away in five years or something like that.
 
[quote name='refusedchaos']if you bought Qore, they gave you free games.[/QUOTE]


That's like saying I am going to pay $60 for Modern Warfare 2's case, but they are giving me the game disk for free. Makes nofuckingsense.


As for the assholes on XBL arguement it is moot. There are just as many assholes on PSN, PC games, this forum, the internet in general. Assholes are everywhere. There are tons of assholes in your everyday life, so why dont you just unsubscribe and jump off a bridge? Stupid arguement.
 
[quote name='Serpentor']I like to add another cent to the "longevity" of the on-line community for a particular game. Simply put, paying $20-$50 a year don't guarantee the game's on-line "longevity." The mass amount of players can easily shift to a different game. Of course, it's still a safer bet than a smaller on-line community. However, unless the game is like international chess, it's on-line life span is finite (if not, your life span is finite).

What the hell i'm trying to say? I rather focus enjoying the game than worry about the game's on-line support goes away in five years or something like that.[/QUOTE]


The online portion of any XBL game is infinite. As long as there is a 360 and an internet connection you will always be able to play. On PSN the lifespan of the game = how long the game developers feel like paying to keep servers up and running.
 
[quote name='Serpentor']I like to add another cent to the "longevity" of the on-line community for a particular game. Simply put, paying $20-$50 a year don't guarantee the game's on-line "longevity." The mass amount of players can easily shift to a different game. Of course, it's still a safer bet than a smaller on-line community. However, unless the game is like international chess, it's on-line life span is finite (if not, your life span is finite).

What the hell i'm trying to say? I rather focus enjoying the game than worry about the game's on-line support goes away in five years or something like that.[/QUOTE]
...
Wow, that is the pinnacle of rationalization.

So pentor did your 360 break or did you sell it?
 
I usually plug in my mic just so I don't have to listen if people are talking :p

The only reason for me to use a mic is if I'm playing with friends.
 
[quote name='Maklershed']It's not comparing apples and oranges where apples are 1 cent and oranges are free. It's comparing a $40 fruit basket to a free rotten orange, the most delicious fruit from the basket.[/QUOTE]
Which is all well and good, but I don't like fruit other than oranges. All that extra fruit is just a big waste when I only want the orange. Let me just have my orange and keep your kiwis, tomatoes, and starfruit.

But no, the rumors coming from the orchard say that the next option is an even bigger fruit basket, this time with mangoes, that costs even more.
 
[quote name='Malik112099']The online portion of any XBL game is infinite. As long as there is a 360 and an internet connection you will always be able to play. [/QUOTE]

Yes and no.


I remember when I first joined LIVE in late 2007, I tried to find a MP game of Urban Chaos:Riot Response on :xbox:.

Sadly, no one was online, but I was able to run around the MP map by myself for 10 minutes.

:lol:/:whistle2:(

I *did* get an online game of UC:RR against my brother in another state a few months later though. :cool:

_________________________


EA games have dedicated servers that they shut down whenever they feel.

I'm still missing 40 acheivements from NBA Live 06 because of that. :bomb:
 
I think PGR3 is the same way, as any of the achievements related to Gotham TV are impossible since they took that down at least a year or two ago.
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']Which is all well and good, but I don't like fruit other than oranges. All that extra fruit is just a big waste when I only want the orange. Let me just have my orange and keep your kiwis, tomatoes, and starfruit.

But no, the rumors coming from the orchard say that the next option is an even bigger fruit basket, this time with mangoes, that costs even more.[/QUOTE]


I'm suddenly thirsty for pineapple orange juice.
 
Here's the deal. EVERY negative thing about Xbox Live you don't like can be applied to PSN minus the $50 yearly subscription. Every positive thing you DO like about Xbox Live can't be applied to PSN which is free. That gap in difference is worth the monthly charge of half of a value meal you shove into your fat face at least once a week to me.
 
[quote name='h3llbring3r']...
Wow, that is the pinnacle of rationalization.

So pentor did your 360 break or did you sell it?[/QUOTE]

My replacement Xbox 360 runs fine and no, i didn't sell it. I just don't like the fact that you have to pay to download demos w/o waiting and of course, to pay to play on-line. I strictly play games offline on the Xbox 360 (don't want to pay and i don't see why i should pay $20 to play on-line). If i do want to play on-line, i just use the 48 hours cards... Call me cheapass, oh wait, i'm on CAG!
 
[quote name='Malik112099']Here's the deal. EVERY negative thing about Xbox Live you don't like can be applied to PSN minus the $50 yearly subscription. Every positive thing you DO like about Xbox Live can't be applied to PSN which is free. That gap in difference is worth the monthly charge of half of a value meal you shove into your fat face at least once a week to me.[/QUOTE]

That, i totally agree, except the bold part... I don't eat value meal and i certainly don't have a fat face, but that's not the point. Point being, the money for "half of a value meal" can be applied for a PSN game through game sharing :bouncy: That's a free PSN game every month for not paying Live, better deal IMO.
 
[quote name='Malik112099']Here's the deal. EVERY negative thing about Xbox Live you don't like can be applied to PSN minus the $50 yearly subscription. Every positive thing you DO like about Xbox Live can't be applied to PSN which is free. That gap in difference is worth the monthly charge of half of a value meal you shove into your fat face at least once a week to me.[/QUOTE]

Well said. :D
 
No matter how many times you reason with them the Xbot kiddies will invent a new excuse. There is nothing on Live that isn't done better on another system, not a thing. If you like throwing away money every year that's your own problem. But as far as the services are concerned it's fanboyism and greed costing you that money. Or judging from 95% of the userbase, the children are using their parents money and don't know better.

Once the PS3 drops in price and people can't complain about that anymore (then buy one of course), the 360 is going to sink the rest of the way. All the best games are on PS3 or Wii and gamers are going to switch up to a more reliable console that adds no extra fees. Without friends or games Live will dry up and the 360 will be on the discount rack before long.

Not one of their complaints about Wii or PS3 are true. I've never had problems finding a game when I wanted to play. Lag is no more than expected from a long time PC gamer. Any chat features are quite adequate if you care to use a mic.
 
[quote name='Malik112099']That's like saying I am going to pay $60 for Modern Warfare 2's case, but they are giving me the game disk for free. Makes nofuckingsense.
[/QUOTE]

what? They gave you free games if you bought the Qore sub...it doesnt come with it. It is an incentive. The games can be bought on PSN.

In addition, the features that most of you guys talk about (Twitter, Facebook, and Netflix streaming) will be negated as more and more HDTVs with built-in wifi and web browser come out
 
Dudes! We all know Xbox Live is totally worth the $50 because it's the best online service EVAR! Oh wait, I mean $30 cause I look for 'dem deals. PSN suuuuucks, it has lag n' shit. It's soooo barebones, I have no problem paying for the superior service!

lol
 
[quote name='DPsx7']No matter how many times you reason with them the Xbot kiddies will invent a new excuse. There is nothing on Live that isn't done better on another system, not a thing. If you like throwing away money every year that's your own problem. But as far as the services are concerned it's fanboyism and greed costing you that money. Or judging from 95% of the userbase, the children are using their parents money and don't know better.

Once the PS3 drops in price and people can't complain about that anymore (then buy one of course), the 360 is going to sink the rest of the way. All the best games are on PS3 or Wii and gamers are going to switch up to a more reliable console that adds no extra fees. Without friends or games Live will dry up and the 360 will be on the discount rack before long.

Not one of their complaints about Wii or PS3 are true. I've never had problems finding a game when I wanted to play. Lag is no more than expected from a long time PC gamer. Any chat features are quite adequate if you care to use a mic.[/QUOTE]


Best thing I've read all day! :lol: Thanks!
 
This thread...so much fanboyism...so many lies...it hurts...

I just know I'd much rather have free online via PSN than $30 annually for XBL. If I needed streaming, I'd get PlayOn, since it not only does Netflix, but Hulu, CBS, and youtube...for both PS3 and 360.

And let's be honest...if you look at the features offered by common PC games via Steam for free, how worth it is the $30 annually then? It crushes both console online plans.
 
[quote name='Salamando3000']This thread...so much fanboyism...so many lies...it hurts...

I just know I'd much rather have free online via PSN than $30 annually for XBL. If I needed streaming, I'd get PlayOn, since it not only does Netflix, but Hulu, CBS, and youtube...for both PS3 and 360.

And let's be honest...if you look at the features offered by common PC games via Steam for free, how worth it is the $30 annually then? It crushes both console online plans.[/QUOTE]

I'm tired of people comparing the PC with the 360 and PS3. Everyone knows that playing online with the PC is free...we get it.
 
Lol, PSN isn't that bad, I think. Lol, that's why I don't bother paying for Live. I used to enjoy getting 1 month cards any time I'd play Live, which isn't often. But now they stopped production of 1 months, which I'm pissed about.
 
[quote name='DPsx7']No matter how many times you reason with them the Xbot kiddies will invent a new excuse. There is nothing on Live that isn't done better on another system, not a thing. [/QUOTE]

Again, Netflix streaming.

Being a casual gamer, but HUGE movie watcher, that's worth it alone for me vs. hassling with buying a Netflix Box and finding room for it in my crowded TV stand.

For online gaming alone? Yeah, I probably wouldn't renew again as I just don't do it much. But they can have my $35 a year for the Netflix streaming.

But I'm also not a cheap ass (I just don't like paying much for games since my interest has shrunk along with my spare time) and $35 isn't much for me to worry over. I'd probably pay up to $5 or maybe even $10 a month for the Netflix streaming alone. And the online gaming which I use every once in a while is a nice bonus.

But I respect that it's not worth the cash to others.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Again, Netflix streaming.

Being a casual gamer, but HUGE movie watcher, that's worth it alone for me vs. hassling with buying a Netflix Box and finding room for it in my crowded TV stand.

For online gaming alone? Yeah, I probably wouldn't renew again as I just don't do it much. But they can have my $35 a year for the Netflix streaming.

But I'm also not a cheap ass (I just don't like paying much for games since my interest has shrunk along with my spare time) and $35 isn't much for me to worry over. I'd probably pay up to $5 or maybe even $10 a month for the Netflix streaming alone. And the online gaming which I use every once in a while is a nice bonus.

But I respect that it's not worth the cash to others.[/QUOTE]

http://www.themediamall.com/playon

One time cost of $40, allows for streaming of Netflix, Hulu, etc. to any 360 or PS3 in your house. Only real downside is that it requires the computer to be constantly on. There's a 14-day trial, and if you really don't game that much, you could probably benefit from it.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']For online gaming alone? Yeah, I probably wouldn't renew again as I just don't do it much. But they can have my $35 a year for the Netflix streaming.[/QUOTE]

Purchase Justified.
No, seriously, this is a pretty good reason imo since he's a big movie aficionado. Sucks he has to pay for it on top of his netflix membership, but this is a pretty good reason.
 
[quote name='Salamando3000']http://www.themediamall.com/playon

One time cost of $40, allows for streaming of Netflix, Hulu, etc. to any 360 or PS3 in your house. Only real downside is that it requires the computer to be constantly on. There's a 14-day trial, and if you really don't game that much, you could probably benefit from it.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough, guess it's less of a benefit. I do remember about reading that before. Though reviews at the time said the picture quality and stability wasn't as good as using the 360 or hooking a PC up to the TV. But maybe it's improved.

But like I said, I'm not a cheap ass and I'm fine with the $35 fee as it's super convenient to have Netflix on the 360, along with gaming when I need it, and convenience is more important to me than saving some pocket change each month.

But again, I get that others don't want to pay for it and that's fine. I couldn't care less as I don't care at all about console wars or what things others like or don't like. To each their own.
 
[quote name='distgfx'] Sucks he has to pay for it on top of his netflix membership, but this is a pretty good reason. [/SPOILER][/QUOTE]

Doesn't bother me at all since Netflix doesn't charge anything extra for streaming on top of the mail rental service.

I'm paying $10.99 a month for 1 disc out at at time, and $2.92 a month for live ($35 cards) so that's a bit under 14 a month to get anywhere from 4-10 discs a month (depending on how much time I have to watch and mail back quickly), unlimited streaming videos, and online gaming.

A damn good bargain to me. But again, to each their own based on what they need and are willing (or not willing) to pay.
 
[quote name='manthing']Yes and no.

I remember when I first joined LIVE in late 2007, I tried to find a MP game of Urban Chaos:Riot Response on :xbox:.

Sadly, no one was online, but I was able to run around the MP map by myself for 10 minutes.

:lol:/:whistle2:(

I *did* get an online game of UC:RR against my brother in another state a few months later though. :cool:[/QUOTE]

No no... you have it all wrong. PS3 uses servers. Once the company does not want to pay to maintain the server, it gets shut off. Once shut off, the game cannot be played online, ever again.

Xbox AND Xbox 360 use a Peer 2 Peer connection. Basically, the system is the server. That was, games can always be played, forever, as long as someone else is on to play it with.
 
I used to think the $50.00 a month was overpriced (I pay $30.00 a year anyway), but as time goes on, Microsoft keeps adding new benifits. One of my favorites is the gold Deal of the Week. Netflix is also great. Avatar awards, 1080p video, and eventually more (social networks... etc) keep the experience of Live superior to any other home console.
 
And look at it this way. Microsoft is notorious for throwing around money for exclusive content. That money, is partly Xbox Live money. In return for our fees (which already garner a great service), we get exclusive content like The Lost and Damned.
 
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