so why exactly is MS still charging us $50 a year for live? [enough arguing]

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[quote name='FriskyTanuki']$3, Mak.[/QUOTE]

There's an interactive aquarium for $2 I think. And yes, I bought it.


[quote name='Serpentor']
Edit: oh, i didn't make up the price of the XBL, it was posted all over the place, you know, nobody pays $50, whoever pays $50 for a year is lazy and stupid. So, i figure some people scored $20 yearly XBL cards (it's CAG you know, if i said $30, someone going to say, i got it for $20 etc...)[/QUOTE]

Shit, I was able to get $5 LIVE cards last year.

:cool:

I still consider $30 to be the 'price' of LIVE.


[quote name='Serpentor']See, i have problem with Battlefield 1942... As a Silver member, i don't see why the purchasing option for that game is available to me. Shouldn't MS put out a msg saying "sorry, Silver members can't purchase this game, you'll need Gold status to play it." I don't think so... Sneaky eh?[/QUOTE]

Silver members can download the demo, but not the full game.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Which is all fine and dandy.

Just no reason to be so antagonistic toward people who think it's a good value.[/quote]
That's a civilized statement, i respect that. I don't have problem with people think it's a good deal. I just have problems with people who think it's the BEST deal. I understand that MS will not change the pricing and services, but at least let the Silver member download the damn demos whenever they want, is that too much to ask?

[quote name='dmaul1114']
But I can see why people who just want to game online and don't care about parties, cross game invites etc., nor about the other non-gaming features, wouldn't feel it was worth it for them.[/QUOTE]
Just described me perfectly :)

Nothing is more irritating that getting an invite while i'm playing a game. The only thing i want to see on the top right hand corner is achievement/trophy. For that matter, i stay offline 95% of the time (both on the Xbox and PS3).
 
[quote name='manthing']There's an interactive aquarium for $2 I think. And yes, I bought it.
[/quote]

oh yeah, i got that too... damn, could have gotten it for 40 cents.


[quote name='manthing']
Shit, I was able to get $5 LIVE cards last year.

:cool: I still consider $30 to be the 'price' of LIVE.
[/quote]
Now, that's pretty cool for $5!

[quote name='manthing']
Silver members can download the demo, but not the full game.[/QUOTE]
Oh that's right, the game is the demo, but you need the key to unlock it.
 
I think it's getting out of control...

No, XBL did not kill my mother (why mother? i don't get it...)

The $12 a year XBL was just a hypothetical situation. If that upsets you, i apologize.
 
[quote name='yukine']Exactly. I also find value in LIVE, hence why I and many others pay for it. I just don't get why certain people find it necessary to bitch and moan about what other people do with their own money.[/QUOTE]


Fine with what you said, but why some people have to bitch and moan about other people's discontent of the XBL fee? If you're happy to pay, then then why should you care about people don't want to pay?
 
[quote name='h3llbring3r']:lol:
Okay Trey.[/QUOTE]

By the way, i couldn't see the pic (link is blocked), so pardon me if i didn't find it funny.
 
[quote name='manthing']There's an interactive aquarium for $2 I think. And yes, I bought it.[/QUOTE]
I thought you needed an Eye for that to work.
 
[quote name='Rocko']It's pretty sick how you ignore the part where I point out your horrendous argument against Xbox Live. :cool:[/QUOTE]

Okay okay, i misquoted the BOLD part. I admit i meant to say that. But still, hypothetically speaking, it's a pretty good suggestion.

People want to pay on-line gaming, happy
People want Netflix services, happy
People want everything on the current XBL, happy

So, see? Everybody is happy... except MS maybe? But that's a shame, because if all of the Silver and Gold members are happy, i don't see why they can't be happy.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']I thought you needed an Eye for that to work.[/QUOTE]

Nope, the Eye is handy though. You can see your reflection on the other side of the fish tank and you can feed the fish too (they follow your fingers).

But yeah, it works fine w/o the Eye.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']I thought you needed an Eye for that to work.[/QUOTE]

So? Totemball on XBLA is still free, even though you need a LIVE Vision camera.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']I thought you needed an Eye for that to work.[/QUOTE]

Without an eye you won't be able to see the screen, or anything else for that matter. Well, you'd see it... but only half of it, so it's better to use two eyes.
 
[quote name='blitz6speed']So much misinformation. PSN Games have the OPTION of servers from sony. Every game is P2P and some have OPTIONAL servers hosted by sony themselves (which btw, run on networked PS3s, not pc's). So just like live, anyone with a ps3, a internet connection and copies of the game can play forever.[/QUOTE]


Please rattle off the P2P games for me. The game developer controls the servers for their own games on PSN. IW controls MW servers. /6 controls Socom servers. EA controls the servers for all their games. Why in the fuck do you think that on the PS3 you have to choose the server you log into once the game starts but on the Xbox you never see "North American Southwest Region 1"!??!?!?!? Have you ever thought of that for a second? Stop spouting bullshit.

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2007/08/08/behind-the-curtain-the-warhawk-servers/comment-page-7/

http://boardsus.playstation.com/pla...w=by_date_ascending&message.id=135303#M135303

http://www.us.playstation.com/Searc...SectionSearch":"all","SearchText":"servers"}}

http://forums.socom.com/socom/board/message?board.id=confrontation&message.id=197106#M197106



gamed.jpg
 
[quote name='Malik112099']Please rattle off the P2P games for me. The game developer controls the servers for their own games on PSN. IW controls MW servers. /6 controls Socom servers. EA controls the servers for all their games. Why in the fuck do you think that on the PS3 you have to choose the server you log into once the game starts but on the Xbox you never see "North American Southwest Region 1"!??!?!?!? Have you ever thought of that for a second? Stop spouting bullshit.

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2007/08/08/behind-the-curtain-the-warhawk-servers/comment-page-7/

http://boardsus.playstation.com/pla...w=by_date_ascending&message.id=135303#M135303

http://www.us.playstation.com/Searc...SectionSearch":"all","SearchText":"servers"}}

http://forums.socom.com/socom/board/message?board.id=confrontation&message.id=197106#M197106



gamed.jpg
[/QUOTE]

You pretty much posted an example of all the games for PSN that do use dedicated servers, thanks. It's well known that all of those games used dedicated servers, some optional. However I didn't know SFIV and RE5 used dedicated servers. :cool:
 
[quote name='blitz6speed']So much misinformation. PSN Games have the OPTION of servers from sony. Every game is P2P and some have OPTIONAL servers hosted by sony themselves (which btw, run on networked PS3s, not pc's). So just like live, anyone with a ps3, a internet connection and copies of the game can play forever.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='distgfx']You pretty much posted an example of all the games for PSN that do use dedicated servers, thanks. It's well known that all of those games used dedicated servers, some optional. However I didn't know SFIV and RE5 used dedicated servers. :cool:[/QUOTE]


That was my point. The vast majority (if not all) of the games use dedicated servers.
 
[quote name='eastshore4']Without an eye you won't be able to see the screen, or anything else for that matter. Well, you'd see it... but only half of it, so it's better to use two eyes.[/QUOTE]
playstation-eye-hands-on-20070924055536141-000.jpg


This is the only Eye you need.
 
[quote name='Malik112099']That was my point. The vast majority (if not all) of the games use dedicated servers.[/QUOTE]

o_O wha? That's a pretty small library of games you listed, unless you meant Sony exclusives and a few third party.
 
[quote name='distgfx']o_O wha? That's a pretty small library of games you listed, unless you meant Sony exclusives and a few third party.[/QUOTE]


thats a small list of MAJOR games.....please name the p2p games you know of over PSN. I'm not saying there are none, but I am saying they are probably not big games with large online communities...

also..why in the hell would a developer waste time and money on servers for PS3 games if all they have to do is code them to be p2p over PSN? makes no fucking sense at all...
 
[quote name='Malik112099']thats a small list of MAJOR games.....please name the p2p games you know of over PSN. I'm not saying there are none, but I am saying they are probably not big games with large online communities...

also..why in the hell would a developer waste time and money on servers for PS3 games if all they have to do is code them to be p2p over PSN? makes no fucking sense at all...[/QUOTE]

Ah, then yea, most major games on the PS3 do. As for P2P only, not a clue.
 
[quote name='whoknows']Rage is what internet forums are all about[/QUOTE]
For some reason, that made me think about the Arcade version of Primal Rage - when the announcer goes "RAAAGE" at the beginning of the rounds...
 
Man, can you guys not post links that are blocked? I'm missing the humors here :(

Anyway, back on the civilized track (as well as learning something new, like P2P).

So, for $20-$50 a year, XBL gives you:

1. Play games on-line, P2P style, so your games will ALWAYS work on-line as long as there's another player playing the game on-line.

2. Streaming Netflix

3. Better interface, i.e. invites and stuff


Did i miss anything else that's worthwhile?
 
[quote name='Serpentor']Man, can you guys not post links that are blocked? I'm missing the humors here :(

Anyway, back on the civilized track (as well as learning something new, like P2P).

So, for $20-$50 a year, XBL gives you:

1. Play games on-line, P2P style, so your games will ALWAYS work on-line as long as there's another player playing the game on-line.

2. Streaming Netflix

3. Better interface, i.e. invites and stuff


Did i miss anything else that's worthwhile?[/QUOTE]

I think you get demo's earlier that Silver (that's bollocks admittedly) also can only Gold Members use the "Deals of the week"? Not sure about that one.
 
[quote name='wwe101']everyone stop saying you get netflix with xbox live, becuase you dont, you have to pay extra for it[/QUOTE]

Sure, but I already had a Netflix subscription for years. So when they added that to Xbox Live it was a bonus for me at no extra cost beyond what I had already been paying for Live and Netflix.

And it got me to renew my Xbox live account last winter when I would have let it expire otherwise as I barely game at all, and even less online these days.
 
[quote name='wwe101']everyone stop saying you get netflix with xbox live, becuase you dont, you have to pay extra for it[/QUOTE]

It does not include Netflix rental service, just streaming... So, if you have a Netflix plan in motion, you can opt to download the movie rather than have it mail it to you (hence faster turnaround). Honestly, it's not exactly a big bonus for most folks (ahem, since most people do it the free way).

Now, if they have that for GameFly, that would be totally awesome (yeah, like that's going to happen :lol:).
 
[quote name='benjamouth']I think you get demo's earlier that Silver (that's bollocks admittedly) also can only Gold Members use the "Deals of the week"? Not sure about that one.[/QUOTE]

Please don't mention that... ahem, that's the first reason why i hate Gold, it makes no sense at all. In the past, maybe waiting for couple days is not a big deal (since there's nothing you can do besides upgrade). However, now with the PSN around, that's not acceptable any more. So for Gold members, they are not getting the demos any earlier (talking about multi-platform games). Which means Silver members are way behind... Probably not worse than killing one's mother, but it's kick to the groin for laughs by MS.

As for "deals of the week" for being Gold, it's okay i guess...
 
For years Silver and Gold members could DL Demos the day they came out. Microsoft then kicked Silver members in the balls and made them wait 2 weeks to download a new demo.

They claimed that they were 'enhancing' the experience for Gold members but thats bullshit. Nothing changed for Gold members, it was Silvers that got downgraded. I pay for Gold, but why would I care if Silvers can download demos the same day as me?

Also worth noting in this thread that Battlefield 1943 on XBLA is not P2P, it uses dedicated EA servers. It's nice becuase you can have 12 vs 12 matches ( I think 8v8 is the P2P limit) but don't go looking to play this game in 5 years.
 
i have gotta say that i have had parties going where I'm playing COD4 with 2 other people and chatting with friends playing Halo 3 and WaW. Pretty damn cool. Also, dont forget that microsoft is constantly adding new shit like XBL primetime, twitter, facebook, dashboard upgrades that dont take an hour to download and install, betas, the spotlight which has a LOT of good videos (if you take the time to look) on all sorts of topics from video game tips to community stuff. XBL is crammed full of all sorts of stuff other than $50 a year for online play. Yeah, silver gets a majority of it also but I find that the $50 price tag for the whole package (whether i use all of the features or not) is more than worth it. The xbox live features, interactivity, updates, videos, seamless online/dashboard integration, cross game invites, parties, etc make XBL a much more robust full experience than PSN by miles. If there were no possible discounts on XBL I would still gladly pay $50 a year.

I do have to hand it to PSN. They give you free online gameplay. No ifs, ands or buts. When comparing the features PSN does have with the SAME features on XBL it is obviously a better deal for free. The problem with that comparison is that all you get for free with PSN is a fraction of what you get for $50 a year on XBL.
 
[quote name='Malik112099']Xbox Live Gold members got the Madden 10 demo a week before XBL Silver or PSN members. You were saying?


http://kotaku.com/5318962/madden-demo-comes-early-to-360-owners[/QUOTE]

Okay, you got a point there.. unfortunately i don't play sport games (especially American football games) so it's still meh in my book. But yeah, in that case Gold rules. I'm not keeping scores here Malik, it's in general i'm talking about (few examples don't cut it, i know you're right, but SO?). And it's so not cool to hate or frown on fellow Silver brethrens. Afterall, Silver is just an expired Gold.

As to Hellbringer, I'm a little confused to why people tend to think people refusing to pay Gold fees are, ahem, "PS3"-ish? I've said my piece and as you can see, i don't call people names, while i don't agree with everything, but i do respect good answers. I just don't get people with hidden/mean sarcasms... Putting labels on people make you a winner or something? I know this is the internet, but i still do believe there's good and integrity in people.

You think it worth the $50 year fee, then good for you. It's not my business how you spend your money. The fact that you're here on CAG means you do penny pinch. So, yeah, understanding WHY you choose to pay is relevant. Especially for those folks don't understand or misinformed about PS3 and Xbox 360's on-line gaming.
 
[quote name='Puffa469']For years Silver and Gold members could DL Demos the day they came out. Microsoft then kicked Silver members in the balls and made them wait 2 weeks to download a new demo.
[/quote]
thank you, i didn't know that... i thought it was always this way since day one. Oh yeah, i didn't get my Xbox 360 after getting the Wii, so you can say that i know very little about the Xbox's past.

[quote name='Puffa469']
They claimed that they were 'enhancing' the experience for Gold members but thats bullshit. Nothing changed for Gold members, it was Silvers that got downgraded. I pay for Gold, but why would I care if Silvers can download demos the same day as me?[/quote]
:(

[quote name='Puffa469']
Also worth noting in this thread that Battlefield 1943 on XBLA is not P2P, it uses dedicated EA servers. It's nice becuase you can have 12 vs 12 matches ( I think 8v8 is the P2P limit) but don't go looking to play this game in 5 years.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for clearing one of my questions (i didn't ask). So, in general, any on-line games with less than 8 players, P2P can handle them. Which means, you can basically play them on-line forever, as long as Gold is still around. However, for "massive" players on-line games, dedicated servers are needed, so the on-line portion is alive as long as the dedicated servers are around. In this area, seriously, I don't see how's XBL is "superior" than PSN. I think using the word "superior" is going to earn me some names again...
 
[quote name='Serpentor']
Thank you for clearing one of my questions (i didn't ask). So, in general, any on-line games with less than 8 players, P2P can handle them. Which means, you can basically play them on-line forever, as long as Gold is still around. However, for "massive" players on-line games, dedicated servers are needed, so the on-line portion is alive as long as the dedicated servers are around. In this area, seriously, I don't see how's XBL is "superior" than PSN. I think using the word "superior" is going to earn me some names again...[/QUOTE]

I think your numbers are a little off here, that would be 16 people for an 8v8. I personally wouldn't mind dedicated servers if the companies would take care of the servers, but many of them ditch their servers when the game becomes "irrelevant", so the P2P becomes better to have if you want to continue playing games after the majority of people move to the next new game. I also personally dislike big games (massive players in one room), 16 players is plenty for me which is why I can live without dedicated servers, though I do wish they would implement a region filter to where you can search for people in your region to have "host" of the match. Nothing against these people personally, but I can't stand playing on a host from Europe/Asia, the lag can become unbearable to try to play on that.
 
[quote name='Malik112099']
I do have to hand it to PSN. They give you free online gameplay. No ifs, ands or buts. When comparing the features PSN does have with the SAME features on XBL it is obviously a better deal for free. The problem with that comparison is that all you get for free with PSN is a fraction of what you get for $50 a year on XBL.[/QUOTE]

Well said.

Again, it's just a matter if one wants the extra features on Live to make the $30-50 worthwhile for them.

For me I do as I use them more than the gaming part, for others it's a waste if they just want to play basic online games (no concern about invite features, parties etc.).

So I'm amazed this thread is still going in circles. It's either worth it to you based on your needs and use of your console or it's not.
 
[quote name='Puffa469']For years Silver and Gold members could DL Demos the day they came out. Microsoft then kicked Silver members in the balls and made them wait 2 weeks to download a new demo.

They claimed that they were 'enhancing' the experience for Gold members but thats bullshit. Nothing changed for Gold members, it was Silvers that got downgraded. I pay for Gold, but why would I care if Silvers can download demos the same day as me?

Also worth noting in this thread that Battlefield 1943 on XBLA is not P2P, it uses dedicated EA servers. It's nice becuase you can have 12 vs 12 matches ( I think 8v8 is the P2P limit) but don't go looking to play this game in 5 years.[/QUOTE]

The amazing part is that Microsoft has convinced people that getting demos early is a feature. Only in such an insular hobby, could a company convince people that getting early access to advertisements (demos) to buy products is somehow a feature. I don't fault Microsoft for charging for this stuff, I'm just surprised people list this as a feature. Of course they've already shown that gamers will pay to plaster their tv with advertisments for their favorite game franchise, through themes and gamer pics.
 
xbl is not worth the retail price. even @ $40 a year is kinda like eh okay for me. I personally think it is over hyped. I too would just like to play a game online with no hassle but there's always something going on. Lag switchers, laggers, modders, hackers, host advantage, racism, etc. That sums up half of the reasons of why xbl sucks. oh and ontop of that, they are charging crazy prices for avatar clothing and other dlc. Map packs are a waste of $ and get played out easily. If you can find an xbl subscription for cheap go for it.
 
[quote name='Malik112099']Xbox Live Gold members got the Madden 10 demo a week before XBL Silver or PSN members. You were saying?


http://kotaku.com/5318962/madden-demo-comes-early-to-360-owners[/QUOTE]


wow, amazing! yet, by the time you finished playing the demo what did you do afterwards? play it again?? it's a demo, not like you got early access to a game or anything special. it's like saying i've had the nxe preview update for awhile now when everyone has it now and no one cares.
 
[quote name='intoxicated662']xbl is not worth the retail price. even @ $40 a year is kinda like eh okay for me. I personally think it is over hyped. I too would just like to play a game online with no hassle but there's always something going on. Lag switchers, laggers, modders, hackers, host advantage, racism, etc. That sums up half of the reasons of why xbl sucks. oh and ontop of that, they are charging crazy prices for avatar clothing and other dlc. Map packs are a waste of $ and get played out easily. If you can find an xbl subscription for cheap go for it.[/QUOTE]

Oh cause that never happens on other online services like PSN or pc games. :roll:
 
Well, to be fair I think his point was at least you're not paying for it on PSN etc.

I definitely wouldn't pay for online gaming as it largely sucks for those reasons IMO, and I don't have many real life friends in to gaming still do to being 30. Most quit after college, having kids etc. and I'm getting to that point myself.

So I can respect why someone wouldn't pay for online gaming with the shit you have to put up with on any online gaming service as part of the reason.
 
[quote name='blitz6speed']We need some racial slurs, some 12 year old boys calling us names, and of course phrostbyte to tell us how superior 360 is to ps3 in everyway, and we'll have the essence of Xbox Live here on CAG![/QUOTE]

It clearly is. :p

Sorry about the whole.. being too poor to afford it thing.
 
[quote name='TheRock88']Oh cause that never happens on other online services like PSN or pc games. :roll:[/QUOTE]

Why can't you just admit Live is nothing more than a collection of children? I'm not saying the smack talk NEVER happens on other systems but it's far less infrequent and like was said you're not paying for it. If you're thick enough to throw away money on this shouldn't you get SOMETHING that isn't available on every other console? Oh, besides ads of course.
 
[quote name='DPsx7']Why can't you just admit Live is nothing more than a collection of children? I'm not saying the smack talk NEVER happens on other systems but it's far less infrequent and like was said you're not paying for it. If you're thick enough to throw away money on this shouldn't you get SOMETHING that isn't available on every other console? Oh, besides ads of course.[/QUOTE]
What? It just so happens Xbox Live is the biggest online gaming community on consoles. 12 year old children and assholes are always going to be on mics and game rooms universally. So yes, less people playing = less possibility of screaming kids. That goes without saying regadless of "if you have to pay or not."
 
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