Spock's Star Trek topic

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[quote name='Kaijufan']Season 4 blows season 3 out of the water.[/quote]

I can't wait to get to it, although at the same time I don't want to. I really enjoy Enterprise and don't want it to end, oh well.

I've thoroughly enjoyed the show so far.
 
[quote name='2Fast']I can't wait to get to it, although at the same time I don't want to. I really enjoy Enterprise and don't want it to end, oh well.

I've thoroughly enjoyed the show so far.[/quote]
I know how you feel. It's totally worth it though, aside from about 2 episodes (one about the creator of the transporter and the series finale) the season was amazing. Season 4 was made by Trekkies for Trekkies.
 
The only thing I can really say against season 3 so far is that the Xindi kinda make me laugh - especially the aquatic ones. I can suspend disbelief with the best of them, but you gotta admit they're kinda silly.
 
The other day my boss and I were discussing who we'd take in a "Star Trek fantasy draft," if you will. Here's who I picked:

Captain: Benjamin Sisko
First Officer: William Riker
Chief Engineer: Montgomery Scott
Operations Officer: Data
Tactical Officer: Worf
Doctor: Phlox

Here was the team of shame:

Captain: Kathryn Janeway
First Officer: Chakotay
Chief Engineer: Miles O'Brien
Operations Officer: Harry Kim
Tactical Officer: Malcom Reed
Doctor: Beverly Crusher
 
[quote name='2Fast']The other day my boss and I were discussing who we'd take in a "Star Trek fantasy draft," if you will. Here's who I picked:

Captain: Benjamin Sisko
First Officer: William Riker
Chief Engineer: Montgomery Scott
Operations Officer: Data
Tactical Officer: Worf
Doctor: Phlox

Here was the team of shame:

Captain: Kathryn Janeway
First Officer: Chakotay
Chief Engineer: Miles O'Brien
Operations Officer: Harry Kim
Tactical Officer: Malcom Reed
Doctor: Beverly Crusher[/quote]

For me...

Team of Glory

Captain: Sisko
First Officer: Spock
Chief Engineer: Geordi LaForge
Operations: Data
Tactical/Security: Worf
Doctor: EMH

Team of Shame...

Captain: Janeway
First Officer: Chakotay
Chief Engineer: Torres
Operations: Kim
Tactical/Security: none
Doctor: Crusher
 
Lots of love for Sisko, what is it about him that makes him so endearing to people? I always liked how he seemed to be in control of everything (even when he wasn't) and was more personable than Picard, Kirk, and Janeway. I also really like baseball, so that helped my decision.
 
Federation All-Stars

Captain: Jean-Luc
First Officer: Spock
Chief Engineer: Scott
Operations: Data
Tactical/Security: O'Brien
Doctor: Bashir
Asshole: Q
Sexy Plaything: T'Pol

Honorable Mention: Worf, Crusher (Beverly), Khan, Jadzia

I realize the O'Brien hire may be out of line, but he's got the experience for it and though it'd be a so-called lateral promotion, I think he'd make the move.
 
Captain: Picard
First Officer: Spock
Chief Engineer: Scotty
Operations: Data
Tactical/Security: Worf
Doctor: Crusher

I like Sisko a lot more now that I've grown up than when I watched the show as a pre-teen/teen. But, Picard is still my favorite.
 
[quote name='2Fast']Lots of love for Sisko, what is it about him that makes him so endearing to people? I always liked how he seemed to be in control of everything (even when he wasn't) and was more personable than Picard, Kirk, and Janeway. I also really like baseball, so that helped my decision.[/quote]

You nailed it.

He had a strong presence, but he was also a man of the people. Being Emissary brought him closer to the common man (or Bajoran if you will) than any other Captain.
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']Picard: could kick your ass if you got under his butt
Sisko: I'm kicking your ass on sheer principle.[/quote]

:lol:
 
[quote name='2Fast']Why was I not warned about Tuvix?![/quote]

Not too bad of an episode actually. Gives me a little more respect for Janeway.
 
[quote name='2Fast']Not too bad of an episode actually. Gives me a little more respect for Janeway.[/quote]

I posted about this, but encased it in spoilers. I liked the episode, which on paper sounds like one of the worst ideas ever, but it worked. The actor playing Tuvix was amazing, and he had a difficult role. But boy, how I hate the ending. I called it one of her worst decisions ever.

I guess, in retrospect, it isn't since it didn't endanger the rest of the crew like some of her other whoppers. But while I often felt that Voyager was bad Star Trek, this was the first time that I thought it wasn't Star Trek at all.

For me, Star Trek has always been about sticking up for the little guy, the powerless, or (ironically) as imagined on Babylon 5 as the one person, alone, in the dark.

Tuvix presented an interesting dilemma. Two people are killed in the creation of Tuvix. But in order to get those two people back, one individual would have to be killed. What happens now?

On the one hand, I was expecting some degenerative medical issue, or some external reason that Tuvix couldn't survive. So in one sense, I am glad that this came down to a decision instead of relying on plot devices, because with no choice, there's no real drama. But it should not have been Janeway's decision. It had to be Tuvix's.

Star Trek consistently upholds the value of life. If there's one person in danger, that person is never abandoned, even if more people get killed as a result of rescuing the one. Previous captains and crews have been willing to protect a single person with their lives, their crew's lives, and their ships.

I can't think of a single instance when they handed someone over to be killed so that Starfleet officers wouldn't get hurt. In fact, if Tuvix had been some Forehead Alien of the Week that was captured by the Borg or the Kazon or whoever, you know that Janeway would have tried to rescue him, even if it put any two (or more) crew members at risk.

Or think of it another way. Would Janeway let someone sacrifice themselves to stop an incoming threat, even if it protected the entire ship as a result? Of course not. Would Janeway order someone to sacrifice themselves? "Hey you, whichever Delaney sister you are, go take a shuttle and fly between us and that incoming meteor. Thanks, you're a doll." Again, of course not.

Sometimes Starfleet captains do have to order someone to their death -- we saw this in TNG when Troi tried out for command. So in the absence of all other options, if it is necessary.

Were there no other options here? Was it necessary? Perhaps Tuvok's and Neelix's rights and feelings have to be considered, so it's even more odd that they aren't. Janeway wants Tuvok back, Kes wants Neelix back, but nobody stops to think for a moment what either Tuvok or Neelix would have wanted. Would Tuvok, a Vulcan, support the killing of innocent life to save his? Something tells me no. That no one bothered to even think about this should be pretty troubling.

I also didn't buy that seemingly everyone on the crew was happy to send Tuvix off to be killed. Everyone was okay with this? Especially when Tuvix did nothing himself to create the situation? I found the character of Tuvix way more appealing than Neelix ever was, which makes the idea that no one would stick up for him an even harder sell.

And I believe that there should be crewmembers that do want Tuvok and Neelix back but would be ethically troubled by killing Tuvix. Doesn't he have rights? A trial? A town hall meeting? Anything? Nobody cares? If there isn't even one, that's one scary collection of people and they totally deserve a leader like Janeway.
 
[quote name='Theenternal']no team of shame love for Katherine Pulaski?[/quote]

I think she was one of the better doctors actually.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']I think she was one of the better doctors actually.[/quote]
I didn't like her very much. I think one of the major reasons besides the fact that she's a female McCoy is that I like funny doctors (seeing as how Scrubs is one of my favorite sitcoms). We got funny doctors in DS9, Voyager and Enterprise which is great.
 
[quote name='blandstalker']I posted about this, but encased it in spoilers. I liked the episode, which on paper sounds like one of the worst ideas ever, but it worked. The actor playing Tuvix was amazing, and he had a difficult role. But boy, how I hate the ending. I called it one of her worst decisions ever.

I guess, in retrospect, it isn't since it didn't endanger the rest of the crew like some of her other whoppers. But while I often felt that Voyager was bad Star Trek, this was the first time that I thought it wasn't Star Trek at all.

For me, Star Trek has always been about sticking up for the little guy, the powerless, or (ironically) as imagined on Babylon 5 as the one person, alone, in the dark.

Tuvix presented an interesting dilemma. Two people are killed in the creation of Tuvix. But in order to get those two people back, one individual would have to be killed. What happens now?

On the one hand, I was expecting some degenerative medical issue, or some external reason that Tuvix couldn't survive. So in one sense, I am glad that this came down to a decision instead of relying on plot devices, because with no choice, there's no real drama. But it should not have been Janeway's decision. It had to be Tuvix's.

Star Trek consistently upholds the value of life. If there's one person in danger, that person is never abandoned, even if more people get killed as a result of rescuing the one. Previous captains and crews have been willing to protect a single person with their lives, their crew's lives, and their ships.

I can't think of a single instance when they handed someone over to be killed so that Starfleet officers wouldn't get hurt. In fact, if Tuvix had been some Forehead Alien of the Week that was captured by the Borg or the Kazon or whoever, you know that Janeway would have tried to rescue him, even if it put any two (or more) crew members at risk.

Or think of it another way. Would Janeway let someone sacrifice themselves to stop an incoming threat, even if it protected the entire ship as a result? Of course not. Would Janeway order someone to sacrifice themselves? "Hey you, whichever Delaney sister you are, go take a shuttle and fly between us and that incoming meteor. Thanks, you're a doll." Again, of course not.

Sometimes Starfleet captains do have to order someone to their death -- we saw this in TNG when Troi tried out for command. So in the absence of all other options, if it is necessary.

Were there no other options here? Was it necessary? Perhaps Tuvok's and Neelix's rights and feelings have to be considered, so it's even more odd that they aren't. Janeway wants Tuvok back, Kes wants Neelix back, but nobody stops to think for a moment what either Tuvok or Neelix would have wanted. Would Tuvok, a Vulcan, support the killing of innocent life to save his? Something tells me no. That no one bothered to even think about this should be pretty troubling.

I also didn't buy that seemingly everyone on the crew was happy to send Tuvix off to be killed. Everyone was okay with this? Especially when Tuvix did nothing himself to create the situation? I found the character of Tuvix way more appealing than Neelix ever was, which makes the idea that no one would stick up for him an even harder sell.

And I believe that there should be crewmembers that do want Tuvok and Neelix back but would be ethically troubled by killing Tuvix. Doesn't he have rights? A trial? A town hall meeting? Anything? Nobody cares? If there isn't even one, that's one scary collection of people and they totally deserve a leader like Janeway.[/quote]
I read this before I left for class and thought about the episode during my drive there. This is an excellent synopsis that really made me think deeply about the episode. When I said that it gave me a little more respect for Janeway, I think I meant it in a "well she/the show actually did something of importance for once" way; but you're very right, it was a terrible decision.

Kudos to the writers for not putting in a cop-out plot device, but shame on them for depicting such a cold and heartless crew on a Star Trek show. The more I thought about it, the more Tuvix's last plea to the bridge crew and their indifference in regards to his life/wishes disturbed me.

It's an interesting dilemma (and I wish I had watched the episode when it first aired to hear more Trek fan responses), that isn't as cut and dry as Data's rights, the Baku relocation, what to do with the murderer on Voyager, a Q's suicide wish, and whatnot.

I wish the episode spent more time with the actual decision and arguments for/against it (shouldn't there have been a trial too?), but I've come to expect Star Trek episodes that spend most of alotted time with the beginning and middle of the story, with a rushed, sometimes unseen ending.

Once again, thanks for the write-up, it really made me think.
 
[quote name='2Fast']It sucks that Spike is only showing one DS9 episode per day now.[/quote]

Man, that does suck ass. I wish they would move Trek back to evenings like it was at first.
 
[quote name='2Fast']It sucks that Spike is only showing one DS9 episode per day now.[/QUOTE]

I think them showing the same three TNG episodes is a bit much. Even them out.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']The same???[/QUOTE]

Damn, post deleted. Same sorry-ass episodes like Too Short A Season, Justice, Skin Of Evil, Loud as a Whisper, Devil's Due, Galaxy's Child, Darmok, The Game, Imaginary Friend, Man of the People, Chain of Command, Sub Rosa, etc. I know not all of these have been shown recently, but they fit a pattern.

And God, if they show Drumhead one more time, I'll break the TV.

Give me more episodes like Cause and Effect, Big Goodbye, Inner Light, Time's Arrow, Frame of Mind, Second Chances, Timescape, Gambit, Parallels, etc. It just seems like they show the episodes I hate.
 
They do show some shitty-ass episodes, as well as playing Best of Both Worlds 1 & 2, and Family about once a week. It seems like they show Sub Rosa and Imaginary Friend once a week as well. I'm pretty sure they'll cut back one episode of TNG when Voyager airs next month. If they replace DS9 with Voyager, so help me god...
 
They do show some shitty-ass episodes, as well as playing Best of Both Worlds 1 & 2, and Family about once a week. It seems like they show Sub Rosa and Imaginary Friend once a week as well. I'm pretty sure they'll cut back one episode of TNG when Voyager airs next month. If they replace DS9 with Voyager, so help me god...
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']Voyager, huh? At least it will be a change of pace. I'll take Voy at 2, DS9 at 3, TNG at 4 and 5.[/quote]

Starts December 18th IIRC.
 
Just an FYI, all of the Star Trek 2D/SE movies are $7.48 after the 20% off coupon at deepdiscountdvd.com

I'm trying to decide whether I want Wrath of Khan or Undiscovered Country, or both.
 
Is this a good place to mention that my uncle is Robert Beltran of ST: Voyager fame? It's not as cool to have an uncle on ST as you might think... The only people that recognize him when I'm out w/ him are dorky fanboys... Most of the time we can go out to dinner or to a movie w/o anyone recognizing him.
 
[quote name='pacifickarma']Is this a good place to mention that my uncle is Robert Beltran of ST: Voyager fame? It's not as cool to have an uncle on ST as you might think... The only people that recognize him when I'm out w/ him are dorky fanboys... Most of the time we can go out to dinner or to a movie w/o anyone recognizing him.[/quote]

Do they ever say "Where's yer tattoo? har har."
 
[quote name='pacifickarma']Is this a good place to mention that my uncle is Robert Beltran of ST: Voyager fame? It's not as cool to have an uncle on ST as you might think... The only people that recognize him when I'm out w/ him are dorky fanboys... Most of the time we can go out to dinner or to a movie w/o anyone recognizing him.[/QUOTE]
This is a great place to mention that.

It's even cooler that you're Chakotay's kin, as he was one of the more outspoken actors re: Voyager's writing. (I am no fan to Voyager in any shape/form.) If I recall, his point was effectively, "Either use me as an actor or replace me with a cutout." Please feel free to correct on that and expound on your what your uncle has shared with you.

Anyhow, huzzah for you, and give your uncle a hearty handshake from dothog in Minneapolis, MN next time you see him.
 
[quote name='pacifickarma']Is this a good place to mention that my uncle is Robert Beltran of ST: Voyager fame? It's not as cool to have an uncle on ST as you might think... The only people that recognize him when I'm out w/ him are dorky fanboys... Most of the time we can go out to dinner or to a movie w/o anyone recognizing him.[/quote]

:cool:

Cool man.
 
[quote name='pacifickarma']Is this a good place to mention that my uncle is Robert Beltran of ST: Voyager fame? It's not as cool to have an uncle on ST as you might think... The only people that recognize him when I'm out w/ him are dorky fanboys... Most of the time we can go out to dinner or to a movie w/o anyone recognizing him.[/quote]
That's really cool.
 
Season 3 of Enterprise is already without a doubt one of my favorites in all of Trek, and I'm only on disc 5 of 7!
 
[quote name='2Fast']No Star Trek on Spike this week makes me sad ;_;[/QUOTE]

Oh thank God, I'm still 2 weeks behind on DS9 on my DVR.
 
TV Land is having a marathon of TOS, they're the un-altered versions which is a little disappointing; I wanted to see what all they did to them.
 
[quote name='2Fast']TV Land is having a marathon of TOS, they're the un-altered versions which is a little disappointing; I wanted to see what all they did to them.[/quote]
They just altered some of the special effects shots, mostly ship stuff. The effects do look much better, and look very natural unlike some of the SFX in the special edtions of Star Wars.
 
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