The Killer Kowalski Memorial (and George Steele) Wrestling Thread

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He never made it out of developmentals.

He spent a year and a half or so in HWA in Cincinnati following the buyout of WCW, and that's it.

I don't know why he feels obliged to get in on this lawsuit, seeing as how he spent all his time in HWA, so it isn't as if he dealt with the majority of the complaints regarding the fine line b/w "independent contractor" and "employee."

I still think that WWE, regardless of how solid a case Raven et al. have, simply has the dirty lawyers and financial resources to outlast them. Raven may win, but WWE will win on appeal.

Like those creepy multi-million dollar lawsuits people point to when they talk about tort reform. McDonald's, nor anyone else, ever paid millions out for a dumbass spilling scalding coffee on themselves. Instead, they muscled into the appeals process and got the settlement brought down into a pithy percentage of the initial sum.

I honestly don't see Raven and the other two getting anything out of this. The best they can hope for is an out-of-court settlement to shut the fuck up. Which they'll all promptly spend on blow and hookers.
 
His legal argument is "breach of contract" for imposing standards on the wrestlers that are more consistent with the legal definition of "employee," as opposed to "independent contractor" (which is how the WWE performers are classified for tax and pay purposes.

One instance that comes to mind is WWE's public dress code - an independent contractor is liable to nobody when not "on the clock," but an employee does. Legally. So the breach of contract is that WWE has employees, but legally designates and pays them as "independent contractors," which means WWE doesn't offer them any benefits package whatsoever.

Which, I believe, is what they're suing for.

The ramifications if they win are immense, because then dozens of other old wrestlers and current wrestlers will come looking for compensation for their tenure, or a new contract that gives them these things.

WWE's counterargument is this idea that "these people read and sign their contracts, so they know what they're getting into." Which is a strange sort of consolation, because Raven's suit documents quite well why they are legally employees and not independent contractors. The counterargument offered by WWE dances around the issue of legal definition of the two terms, and simply argues "they signed the contract."

It's a huge deal, potentially, but WWE's legal muscle will win in the end. They almost always do, and they're too stubborn to make amends with groups. Which is why their Attitude era DVD releases suck. If they could just have given some million dollar donation to the World Wildlife Fund in exchange for not having to edit their video archive!!!

Instead, they had to pay out much more in court, let alone the time, labor, and equipment costs (not to mention lost revenue, because you can blow me if you think I'm buying the Rock DVD set knowing how edited it is - his whole bloomin' career is virtually the WWF Attitude era) to "scrub" the WWF logo from archived footage.
 
[quote name='Blackout']Why is Raven going after WWE?[/quote]


Honestly, for a good cause. It is to decide if WWE athletes are independent contractors or employees. Presently, WWE athletes are independent contractors. They have no health care or benefits that simple jobs at, per se, Starbucks or even Target provide. If Levy wins, hopefully, it would be of the benefit of pro-wrestlers under a WWE contract. I know why, but I wonder why more wrestlers aren't coming to Levy's side.
 
What is it stemming from though? Is he looking for compensation or something? Money from dvd sales, etc? Or did he just decide to take on WWE because of how messed up they treat their wrestlers?

I think the WWE lawyers will destroy him and the other guys in court, but who knows.

I didn't catch SD (just saw some clips on youtube). Killings is a pretty good wrestler, much improved since his last WWE run. Kendrick is aweomse. I loved his promo. Big Show needs to be champ of Smackdown or something. They NEVER use him right. He is huge as fuck and has a great personality. He is getting big pops. Why not give him a huge push? They should have gave him the belt after how hot he was with that WM buildup.
 
[quote name='neocisco']I like FNFW. Thanks!

No link for KENTA pt. 1 or Awesome/Tanaka 1 & 2. Are they there and is it just me or are they actually missing?[/quote]



I've been having that problem with some of the videos as of late. I checked and all the videos are showing up, but if you need the link you can just double click the videos to bring up the video's original page. I'll try to get it fixed soon. And thanks for the FNFW support!!!:applause::applause::applause:
 
[quote name='mykevermin']It's a huge deal, potentially, but WWE's legal muscle will win in the end. They almost always do, and they're too stubborn to make amends with groups. Which is why their Attitude era DVD releases suck. If they could just have given some million dollar donation to the World Wildlife Fund in exchange for not having to edit their video archive!!! [/QUOTE]

Wouldn't that be a prime example of "WWE's legal muscle" failing horribly? They are probably laughing this off just like they did with the World Wildlife Fund which could bite them in the ass in the future.

This is going to have massive ramifications if Raven wins. It's possible that WWE will have to recognize their wrestlers as employees, which means 401k/health care/higher taxes, which means their cost of operation will explode.

I would laugh my ass off if after everything the WWE has gone through, Raven, of all fucking people, causes them to go bankrupt.
 
[quote name='JaytheGamefan']Brie Bella's debut was more impressive to me than "R-Truth"'s debut - it was certainly more memorable, with her ducking under the ring for THE SWITCH!~ leading to her winning. I enjoyed seeing what's largely been a heel move since the Fabulous Ones in the '80s brought back as a face act - it'll be interesting to see what WWE does with this. [/quote]


Man, I totally thought she was just no selling that brutal kick after the match. I was like WTF? She took a stff kick and was just bouncing around and happy at the end. I didn't even realize twins were involved. :lol:
 
[quote name='Sporadic']Wouldn't that be a prime example of "WWE's legal muscle" failing horribly? They are probably laughing this off just like they did with the World Wildlife Fund which could bite them in the ass in the future.

This is going to have massive ramifications if Raven wins. It's possible that WWE will have to recognize their wrestlers as employees, which means 401k/health care/higher taxes, which means their cost of operation will explode.

I would laugh my ass off if after everything the WWE has gone through, Raven, of all fucking people, causes them to go bankrupt.[/QUOTE]

Sure, but you'd be a fool if you thought Raven could afford the lawyers the Wildlife Fund can.

EDIT: Huh. How about that? The courts threw out WWE's lawsuit against Jakks (toymakers of WWE figures) yesterday.

WWE filed an appeal within the day. Just hope Raven knows what they're getting into. They won't get genuine victory without surviving three or more appeals.
 
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[quote name='BoSoxFan900']Killer Kowalski has passed away. RIP.[/quote]


Damn, that's too bad. You hate to hear stuff like that.
 
Hate to hear about Killer Kowalski... I'm guessing that WWE will do something for him seeing as Triple H was trained by him a well as many others.
 
[quote name='pitfallharry219']Spoiler from tonight's Raw taping:

Randy Orton returns, for one night at least. He also smacks Cody Rhodes backstage.
[/quote]

The second part of that is awesome:rofl:
 
[quote name='pitfallharry219']Spoiler from tonight's Raw taping:

Randy Orton returns, for one night at least. He also smacks Cody Rhodes backstage.
[/quote]

Just read a set of spoilers myself and it sounds like a decent show. Also, I
 
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[quote name='JaytheGamefan']HBK's out with a torn triceps -
http://www.prowrestling.net/artman/publish/WWE/article1002622.shtml

Huge blow for Raw, although I could see him trying to gut it out until the PPV like he did with Cyber Sunday, it would be much wiser for him to NOT do that, as that type of behavior is partly why his body is so broken down now.[/quote]

the only question is what now, i'm a jericho fan, but i don't wanna hear ANOTHER "i sent hbk home to his injured wife and he knows i did this to him" speech again. but it's not like they can pull a swerve and have someone else come out and wrestle him well at least i cant think of anyone.
 
[quote name='Purple Flames']That could really hurt Unforgiven, as their match is a huge draw.[/quote]


Amen to that. If I could still buy PPVs, I'd buy it just to see those two. I still love their match at Wrestlemania XIX.
 
[quote name='BlueSwim']Amen to that. If I could still buy PPVs, I'd buy it just to see those two. I still love their match at Wrestlemania XIX.[/quote]

Me too. That was an awesome match.
 
Ah. Oh, well... so much for the greatness that is the HBK/Jericho feud. I have no faith in WWE to be able to play this off well, but I'm crossing my fingers.

Still, though, I don't like to wish pain and suffering on anyone, but we're about two main-eventer injuries (let's say: Batista and HHH) from complete and total WWE meltdown. Was it last summer that there was that list of the eight guys who carry the company released? We're down to, what, like 2 or 3 now? HHH, Big Dave, Taker?

The downside to any of this, obviously, is that people like JBL, Kane, and Mysterio are going to now get more prime airtime. As the reviewer on pw.net noted, I hate when Mysterio wrestles (at all, really), but especially when it's against big men. If you can't CONSISTENTLY make it believable, then don't do it.
 
[quote name='007']Still, though, I don't like to wish pain and suffering on anyone, but we're about two main-eventer injuries (let's say: Batista and HHH) from complete and total WWE meltdown. Was it last summer that there was that list of the eight guys who carry the company released? We're down to, what, like 2 or 3 now? HHH, Big Dave, Taker?

The downside to any of this, obviously, is that people like JBL, Kane, and Mysterio are going to now get more prime airtime. As the reviewer on pw.net noted, I hate when Mysterio wrestles (at all, really), but especially when it's against big men. If you can't CONSISTENTLY make it believable, then don't do it.[/quote]

Taker's still slightly suffering, since he came back early to Summerslam from resting from injuries. Edge is partly injured, but it's minor stuff, although they wrote him out(like Taker in May) so it's not something he's out a year for.

As for Rey, I'd wish they'd treat him like Jamie Noble was a couple weeks ago with JBL and have the big guys completely manhandle him.

After reading the spoilers,
it seems WWE is giving Charlie Haas a mimic gimmick like they did Golddust in early 98(where he was a different gimmick each week). Because Haas is playing as John Cena this week, guess this is their last grasp at trying to get him attention.
 
[quote name='007']Ah. Oh, well... so much for the greatness that is the HBK/Jericho feud. I have no faith in WWE to be able to play this off well, but I'm crossing my fingers.

Still, though, I don't like to wish pain and suffering on anyone, but we're about two main-eventer injuries (let's say: Batista and HHH) from complete and total WWE meltdown. Was it last summer that there was that list of the eight guys who carry the company released? We're down to, what, like 2 or 3 now? HHH, Big Dave, Taker?

The downside to any of this, obviously, is that people like JBL, Kane, and Mysterio are going to now get more prime airtime. As the reviewer on pw.net noted, I hate when Mysterio wrestles (at all, really), but especially when it's against big men. If you can't CONSISTENTLY make it believable, then don't do it.[/quote]


They still have guys they can push to the main event now who are proven. Big Show, Jericho, Kane, and guys who are ready to run with the ball like Umaga, Jeff Hardy.
 
Wonder if Michaels will just tough it out and just do more of an angle than a match when the PPV comes. They could certainly have Jericho attack him during his entrance and waste him with a chair or whatever, explaining his time off while he recovers. That may be making the feud seem really one-sided, but that may not be a bad thing since Jericho has been doing a good job lately.

Or they could do the reverse, having Michaels take out Jericho...then "suspend" Michaels for his actions, giving him time off. Then Michaels gets his revenge but it is still left open for when he returns later on.
 
I think you need to keep Jericho safe and white hot.

After all, he just pinned the champ, clean, last week.

Put him over HBK, and have him go after Punk. Punk/Jericho feud? YES.

Of course, it was a waste to give away Punk/Jericho on TV with no buildup whatsoever - but that's the way WWE does things. They obviously have all the best ideas on how to...do whatever it is they call what they're doing.
 
[quote name='KaneRobot']Wonder if Michaels will just tough it out and just do more of an angle than a match when the PPV comes. They could certainly have Jericho attack him during his entrance and waste him with a chair or whatever, explaining his time off while he recovers. That may be making the feud seem really one-sided, but that may not be a bad thing since Jericho has been doing a good job lately.

Or they could do the reverse, having Michaels take out Jericho...then "suspend" Michaels for his actions, giving him time off. Then Michaels gets his revenge but it is still left open for when he returns later on.[/QUOTE]

I almost hope that they do what they did back in (I believe) his commissioner days.

Have a camera crew find him backstage bloodied/unconscious backstage and say that Jericho couldn't wait and attacked him when HBK showed up at the arena.

That would make Jericho come off like a million bucks and it would help prolong their fued until HBK comes back.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']They still have guys they can push to the main event now who are proven. Big Show, Jericho, Kane, and guys who are ready to run with the ball like Umaga, Jeff Hardy.[/quote]

That was my point... I want to see who would get the proverbial 'ball'. Show seems a good pick, but they've seemed unwilling to use him since his return. Jericho is a good pick, but that's up to how readily they want to abandon the HBK angle (depending on time off and whatnot). Kane is, I'm sure, a great guy, but he just isn't main event material. Serious question: would you buy a PPV headlined by Kane in 2008? Umaga, completely ignoring the fact that he's injured at the moment, needs a makeover before ascending... a mouthpiece or speaking ability for one. Jeff Hardy, well, that's up to how much they trust him.

That was way too much response for the topic at hand, but hey. It's all irrelevant anyway, since unless HHH or Batista go down, they'll be the focal point of their respective shows from here on out.

I'm still curious to see what exactly they have planned for HHH, since I assume he'll hold onto the belt so they have a strong leader going into the network change. Outside of Show, he doesn't have many feuds to get into over there, unless they want to elevate someone. Taker is a possibility, but I've always gotten the sense that he and HHH have never seen eye to eye, which is why Taker has always remained on Smackdown.
 
[quote name='Genocidal']fuck. That's the match I was most looking forward to.[/quote]


Yeah, exactly.

I guess this is a good example of how WWE should look to the future. Michaels, Triple H, Edge, the Undertaker, even Cena, and other tenured, active talent won't be active forever.

It's a shame as I like Michaels. I think he and Jericho would have stolen the show.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Maybe HBK can get beat up by 15 guys at a bar in Syracuse.[/quote]

Maybe he will lose his smile and have to go home and find it.
 
So now with Michaels seemingly out, for RAW that leaves Punk, Batista, and Rey as the top faces.

I'm pulling for the return of the big Valbowski to save RAW in its time of need.
 
Val could probably play filler for the IC division, if WWE needed. That way, they could push Santino to main event status, which he deserves.
 
More on HBK's triceps tear from today's www.f4wonline.com news update - he wants to do the PPV match, but doctors might ixnay it -

--Shawn Michaels is getting his triceps tear evaluated today. He took a bad bump chasing Chris Jericho. Last night after the show, Michaels was saying that no matter what, he would be doing the match on Sunday and we haven't heard differently at this point, but the doctors may say otherwise today. Long-term, it wasn't looking good.
Click to expand...

Bill Watts' memories on Killer Kowalksi - http://www.jrsbarbg.com/blog/cowboy-bill-watts-remembers-killer-kowalski

Santino, as he is, has no place in a main event role. He's perfect as the king of the mid-carders as a comedy act, which he's better at than being a straight wrestler, and it's getting him more airtime than that kind of role would likely get him.

Today is Deuce's birthday - HE IS 37 YEARS OLD, and still horrible.
 
the-smackdown-countdown-santino-marella-20080829021846068.jpg


http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/906/906705p1.html
 
God knows I love Santino, but as great as his mic skills are, his actual wrestling ability needs a lot of work before he rises any higher than the spot he's in. I hope that his wrestling improves and that happens someday. He's go the promo thing down pat.
 
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