The "Road to Wrestlemania XXX" Wrestling Thread

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mykevermin said:
mykevermin, on 13 Feb 2014 - 6:05 PM, said:
Eh. We've all had jobs. How many people have you ever met that *everyone* in the workplace liked, was not envious of, etc.?

He was prone to speaking his mind, so we're told (and I don't mean his milquetoast "pipe-bomb" promos). Someone who is a loudmouth and calls things out is 100% guaranteed to have people in their workspace who really don't like them.
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Unless he's the type of person who speaks out about everything as if his opinion is more valid than everyone else's (which seems like Punk). Undertaker is someone who has even called out Kliq members and no one seems to dislike him apart from various primadonnas like Lesnar.

The only other person who did something similar was Austin, but then again he's Austin. No one ought to care what a Jeff Jarrett or Billy Gunn thinks when he was one of their biggest bread winners of all time. Atleast Austin had a good reason to walk out too. They wanted him to lose a King of the Ring qualifying match. Punk is complaining he had to fight Vince's son not named Shane at WrestleMania? Poor thing.

 
See, now I think WWE is referring to the giant yearly exposition that occurs in Massachusetts for a couple of weeks in September.  So confused.

 
Jeff Hardy, this is your Black Reign.  Then again, with how super dry TNA is right now I could enjoy Jeff getting a little weird.

http://youtu.be/BasP6plMlZU

 
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davo1224 said:
Unless he's the type of person who speaks out about everything as if his opinion is more valid than everyone else's (which seems like Punk). Undertaker is someone who has even called out Kliq members and no one seems to dislike him apart from various primadonnas like Lesnar.

The only other person who did something similar was Austin, but then again he's Austin. No one ought to care what a Jeff Jarrett or Billy Gunn thinks when he was one of their biggest bread winners of all time. Atleast Austin had a good reason to walk out too. They wanted him to lose a King of the Ring qualifying match. Punk is complaining he had to fight Vince's son not named Shane at WrestleMania? Poor thing.
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Oh, don't get me wrong. Anyone pouting b/c they have a WrestleMania match vs HHH is clearly ego trippin'. But I'd have to say you're citing exceptions of people who speak out (Austin, Undertaker) to prove a rule. Sure, some places have "old heads" that are seen to have paid their dues and therefore get respect.

I guess my point is that I'm reluctant to believe any sort of "oh, they're hated behind the scenes" stuff when dirt sheets say so. You can find any single person willing to talk shit about another person - and wrestling dirt sheets are happy to turn that single conversation into a broad brush of "here's how it is back there."

Maybe it was like that, and a lot of people really, really dislike him. My point is simply that the dirt sheets are never going to convince me of that by posting anonymous letters from one dude.

 
z9zPfp5.png

Bray Wyatt knockoff gimmick coming to TNA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=BasP6plMlZU

 
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mitch079 said:
He should have hung them up awhile back. There can't possibly be anything in his knees at this point other than crazy glue, duct tape, and a slinky.
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Yeah, at this point they should either have him be a trainer for the rest of his contract or just let him out of the contract. He's about as injury prone as Christian(who I'm guessing will get injured again probably with the Elimination Chamber :roll: ). But on the way out, have him remove the mask in some fashion. That way they don't have to act like he didn't wrestle for WCW's last 2 years unmasked.

Actually speaking of which, I wonder how the WWE Network is going to handle that. Are they going to edit out his matches(despite advertising "unedited") or act like that's a different Rey Mysterio? Since they seem to go out of their way to avoid showing matches where he's unmasked.

 
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Take a guy more over than everyone else in your locker room and give him an old gimmick that never worked. Worked out well for Owen Hart. I want to like TNA and WWE soooo much, but stuff like this just makes me scratch my head. Dont pay AJ Styles, and instead give that money to MVP??? I just dont understand.

I cant wait for Jarretts new promotion to start up.

 
Here's the thing with Punk. And I understand where he is coming from. 

In 2013 they gave Punk nothing. He lost to The Rock. He lost to Cena. He lost to the Undertaker. He lost to Lesnar. That effectively makes him the fifth top guy in the company. Except now they're pushing Bryan. And Batista is back. And they got plans to push Reigns. And Orton is champion. So at best Punk ranks somewhere underneath Batista (who won the rumble) and Reigns (who Punk put over).

So now considering all that, Punk, at best, is the ninth top guy in the company. That alone has to chew punk up. In terms of how much the company values him, the list probably goes something like this.

01. The Rock

02. John Cena

03. Undertaker

04. Brock Lesnar

05. Randy Orton

06. Batista

07. Roman Reigns

08. Daniel Bryan

09. CM Punk

But if you look at that list, apart from Bryan, there is no one else that has been putting on better matches then Punk. And that's is the second thing.

How can the guy who has the best matches, be the number two merchandise seller in the company, end up being the ninth most important guy in the company? 

For a guy as ambitious as Punk, it's insulting that for the number two merchandise seller, and arguably the best wrestler on the roster, to be put in a feud with two guys in the twilight of their career (Kane and HHH). More so, with his contract ending in June / July, odds were that he was going to leave Wrestlemania putting Hunter over.

I imagine that was more than his pride could handle and he walked away because I don't believe Punk respects Hunter. Of course, it can all be a work. I imagine it is. But even as a work, the mentality behind the character of CM Punk walking away makes sense. 

 
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In 2013 they gave Punk nothing. He lost to The Rock. He lost to Cena. He lost to the Undertaker. He lost to Lesnar. That effectively makes him the fifth top guy in the company. Except now they're pushing Bryan. And Batista is back. And they got plans to push Reigns. And Orton is champion. So at best Punk ranks somewhere underneath Batista (who won the rumble) and Reigns (who Punk put over).
 

They gave him nothing? He had a year long run as WWE Champion and high profile fueds with Rock, Cena, Lesnar and the Undertaker. It is ridiculous to think that they gave him nothing. In many ways, Punk is a victim of the time. He wants to be the top guy, but he is in an era with John Cena.

 
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lombarvm said:
In 2013 they gave Punk nothing. He lost to The Rock. He lost to Cena. He lost to the Undertaker. He lost to Lesnar. That effectively makes him the fifth top guy in the company. Except now they're pushing Bryan. And Batista is back. And they got plans to push Reigns. And Orton is champion. So at best Punk ranks somewhere underneath Batista (who won the rumble) and Reigns (who Punk put over).

They gave him nothing? He had a year long run as WWE Champion and high profile fueds with Rock, Cena, Lesnar and the Undertaker. It is ridiculous to think that they gave him nothing. In many ways, Punk is a victim of the time. He wants to be the top guy, but he is in an era with John Cena.
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Pretty much. He's like Savage to Cena's Hogan.

 
lombarvm said:
In 2013 they gave Punk nothing. He lost to The Rock. He lost to Cena. He lost to the Undertaker. He lost to Lesnar. That effectively makes him the fifth top guy in the company. Except now they're pushing Bryan. And Batista is back. And they got plans to push Reigns. And Orton is champion. So at best Punk ranks somewhere underneath Batista (who won the rumble) and Reigns (who Punk put over).

They gave him nothing? He had a year long run as WWE Champion and high profile fueds with Rock, Cena, Lesnar and the Undertaker. It is ridiculous to think that they gave him nothing. In many ways, Punk is a victim of the time. He wants to be the top guy, but he is in an era with John Cena.
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His run was in 2012. Ended in January 2013. How many high profile wins has Punk had in 2013? In fact, what was the biggest win Punk had in 2013? All the guys you named, he lost against. So what was his biggest victory?

At best he was booked like a high quality wrestler that consistently chokes in high profile matches.

 
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HeroToTheMasses said:
His run was in 2012. Ended in January 2013. How many high profile wins has Punk had in 2013? In fact, what was the biggest win Punk had in 2013? All the guys you named, he lost against. So what was his biggest victory?

At best he was booked like a high quality wrestler that consistently chokes in high profile matches.
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The guy had the most impressive title run we have seen in quite some time. If he sits perched atop the company FOREVER he risks becoming a Cena or a Hogan. I totally understand what you are saying in regards to not having any huge wins in 2013 (besides beating up Ryback, Axel and Heyman).

Looking back, do you think they unified the titles too soon? If Punk wanted to leave after WM they could have given him one more run with the WHC and have him drop it to an up-and-comer who could really use the rub (beating "The best in the world")

 
tangytangerine said:
vs Ryback & Heyman at Hell in the Cell? Honestly, it does seem like he lost a lot of big matches. But he also spent most of the year banged up(& took 3 months off at WM for it too).
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Even banged up, he only missed one PPV. Lets look at his win / loss record through all the PPVs.

He lost at the Rumble to Rock.

Lost again at Elimination Chamber (a PPV they definitely need to move to later in the year) to the Rock.

Lost to Undertaker at Wrestlemania.

Skipped Extreme Rules.

Defeated Chris Jericho at Payback.

Lost at Money in the Bank

Lost at Summerslam to Lesnar

Lost to Paul Heyman and Curtis Axel at Night of Champions

Defeated Ryback at Battleground with a low blow.

Defeated Ryback and Paul Heyman at Hell in a Cell.

Defeated the Wyatts at Survivor Series with Daniel Bryan

Defeated the Shield at TLC.

Eliminated by Kane at the Rumble.

So his biggest wins in 2013 were against Ryback / Wyatt / and The Shield.

The stuff against Ryback was awful as he was acting as filler for Lesnar. The Wyatt feud went absolutely nowhere. The Shield stuff looked like it was eventually building towards a Wrestlemania match with HHH but even then the main purpose of the feud was to get Reigns over instead of building towards Punk / HHH.

I'd argue it's not only the losses that bother Punk, but the middling storylines he got placed into to try and get mid-card talent over. He was effectively being used like Chris Jericho or Christian for the latter half of 2013 and he thought he deserved better.

 
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Dr. Venkman said:
The guy had the most impressive title run we have seen in quite some time. If he sits perched atop the company FOREVER he risks becoming a Cena or a Hogan. I totally understand what you are saying in regards to not having any huge wins in 2013 (besides beating up Ryback, Axel and Heyman).

Looking back, do you think they unified the titles too soon? If Punk wanted to leave after WM they could have given him one more run with the WHC and have him drop it to an up-and-comer who could really use the rub (beating "The best in the world")
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Punk was never going to be happy unless he was in the main event at Wrestlemania. That's what it was for him. He wanted to be defending or fighting for the WWE championship at Wrestlemania and go on last. The WHC was never going to work for him.

I imagine he was willing to go along with whatever crap he needed to until he won the Rumble and faced for the title at Wrestlemania. But when they told him the news that Batista would win, he probably freaked a little, thought it would get over like hot garbage, but decided he might be wrong and went ahead and did the Rumble.

When the crowd booed the roof off after Batista won, like he thought, he decided it was time to get off the train. Again this is all conjecture, and it could all be a work, but strictly from a character perspective, it all makes sense. If it's not a work, I'm done with the WWE. If it is, I'll tune back in.

 
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Stone Cold regrets "taking his ball and going home". Punk will as well, if thisn't a work. I'm a lifelong Bret Hart fan and I get endless amounts of shit about Bret not doing the respectful thing before leaving WWE, which I can totally understand. If Punk planned on leaving, why not go out on a professional note? Why tarnish your legacy and throw a tantrum? It doesn't make sense, then again, neither does Punk at times. I can't help but feel this is a work or will turn into a work.

 
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Is it better to be used like garbage and be seen as a professional like Jericho has in his last couple of runs, or is it better to walk away like Austin?

Austin saw money in himself and felt that by putting Lesnar over like they planned to do would paint him as washed up. By walking away, I'd argue that though he may have left money on the table, Austin maintained his tough guy image which helped him land the film roles which have kept him making money.

The WWE's position on the matter is that Austin denied the audiences his presence by not taking a loss. But that's bullshit. They wanted to use Austin to make Lesnar, even if the loss hurt Austin's career outside of the company. Part of being professional isn't just doing what the company asks you to do, but having the company do right by you. 

I doubt Punk threw any kind of tantrum. He made his mind up, made his intentions known to Vince, and then followed up on them. The difference between Austin and Punk is that Austin was worried about how his character would be portrayed through the storylines so that he could make more money. Punk was instead terribly frustrated, angry, and unhappy with his role in the company and how he was being used. Instead of hating himself and the life he was living, he went home. 

Punk is more like Hart in that sense where the wrestling side of things mattered to him and how things were being done were disturbing his quality of life outside of the business.  I'm one hundred percent certain that CM Punk is living happier now than when he was with the company three weeks ago.

But instead of leaving for money like Austin or Hart, I imagine Punk left for peace of mind. That's kind of why I tuned out of the company myself. I recall the months of frustration following Orton's win after Summerslam and seeing how they would work Bryan back into the main event scene. Instead Big Show took over his spot at Survivor Series and I've kind of been getting increasingly frustrated myself for the past four months. 

My time is important enough to me that I'm not going to watch stuff that makes me angry or annoyed. There's plenty of other things in the world than the WWE.

 
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Hooray for Jeff Hardy's King Diamond gimmick. He's even got the voice kinda down.

I vaguely recall Hardy doing the Willow The Wisp gimmick in RoH and getting booed horribly. This could be fun.
 
There's definitely some merit to your points, HerototheMasses. They're certainly well thought through.

I suppose I just can't bring myself to believe that a pro wrestler is going to go home on account of not being high enough on the Wrestlemania card, or taking too many losses as an upper-card guy. I don't think Kane has won a match since 2003 (I'm exaggerating, of course).

If you're exhausted, if you're beat up, if you need time off, by all means, take it. Wrestlers hella deserve an off-season for all they put themselves through in terms of physicality and travel.

I just have the hardest time seeing how anyone in the upper echelon of the WWE card and payroll has any legitimate gripe. Actually, Austin had one, because he thought WWE was giving up PPV money (and therefore a PPV payday for Austin) by not building to a feud and having Austin put Lesnar over. Let's differentiate between an unannounced cable tv loss and "putting someone over," because they are two very different things.

I can't help but sympathize for Punk, but I also can't help but feel that his complaints (if they are what we think they are) are misattributed and childish. Like someone who spent their entire life failing to take any personal responsibility for their lot in life. Quick to angrily and loudly point the finger at everyone but himself. He spent ten years doing the WWE schedule? He made that choice, he made that call (and he ain't the only one). I really, honestly, completely can't feel sorry for him (which does not mean, of course, I think "WWE is right" or somesuch). I know WWE can put out a better product, but throwing a self-centered temper tantrum like the mark for himself he is ain't the way to make it happen.

 
I agree with you for the most part.

I imagine the only way Punk will ever get what he wants (being the main event at Wrestlemania) is to get involved in a big league film like Rock (Fast and the Furious) or Batista (Guardians of the Galaxy). If he can manage that, maybe the WWE will have him in the main event. Otherwise, it'll never happen.

-------------------------------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEEVz2Q9Oyc

 
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I can see that - WWE, for all its commercial value, still very often shows that it is driven by Vince McMahon's ego, and his ego has always been off put by not being accepted within mainstream entertainment circles (it has to sting extra hard that, in an era of Honey Boo Boo and 17 different Kardashian programs, that WWE is still regarded as lowbrow, mouthbreather entertainment).

Think about it this way - a top-shelf performer leaving the company in any other entertainment capacity (a bandleader leaving a band, a castmember leaving a tv show, an actress storming off the set) would be fodder for weeks/months on TMZ and the like. I'm not sure if CM Punk leaving even got a mention on TMZ.

WWE has always had an extra special place in its heart for performers that became popular and succeeded outside of wrestling and in film, tv, etc. It's not hard to understand why, but I can see that being a sore spot for "full time" wrestlers. I don't see how that will ever change.

 
KaneRobot said:
Hooray for Jeff Hardy's King Diamond gimmick. He's even got the voice kinda down.

I vaguely recall Hardy doing the Willow The Wisp gimmick in RoH and getting booed horribly. This could be fun.
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Here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBsWWSR51D0

 
Between Matt's whole "Angelic Diablo" thing and Jeff's "Willow the Wisp" character it really feels to me like these guys never graduated middle school. If Jeff comes out in that outfit and started playing POGS in the middle of the ring then I'd mark out and laugh, otherwise...no thanks.

 
I'm watching the Kevin Steen show with Davey Richards and it's blowing my mind.

They're talking about how Davey worked at a mental health institute and copious amounts of death he's had to deal with in becoming a paramedic, including being there when a 8 year old was told they'd be paralyzed forever. This needs to be seen. 
 

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Hey Neo. Remember that Davey Richards / KENTA match I mentioned earlier? Davey just revealed that the company wanted the match to be only 10 minutes with a Larry Sweeney run-in. They went longer and I guess changed the ending which is what got them heat.

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XOTQ4NjMwMzY=.html

 
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KillerRamen said:
http://youtu.be/icUPjniE52w

They made Wade Barrett his own custom podium lift thing.
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Bad News Barrett? When did they start calling him that? That thing must be fifty feet tall. All that just to do 2 minute segments? Wow.

HeroToTheMasses said:
I'm watching the Kevin Steen show with Davey Richards and it's blowing my mind.

They're talking about how Davey worked at a mental health institute and copious amounts of death he's had to deal with in becoming a paramedic, including being there when a 8 year old was told they'd be paralyzed forever. This needs to be seen.

---

Hey Neo. Remember that Davey Richards / KENTA match I mentioned earlier? Davey just revealed that the company wanted the match to be only 10 minutes with a Larry Sweeney run-in. They went longer and I guess changed the ending which is what got them heat.

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XOTQ4NjMwMzY=.html
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I'm trying to remember if I've seen that match. I think I have but I'm not certain. Gotta love Chinese Youtube.

 
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neocisco said:
Bad News Barrett? When did they start calling him that? That thing must be fifty feet tall. All that just to do 2 minute segments? Wow.
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It started on the JBL and Cole Show 6-8 months ago and started moving over to the other shows probably in December. They've been giving him sillier podiums and scissor lifts for a while now and I suspect this newest one is just an elaborate skirt for one of their larger scissor lifts.

http://youtu.be/IATZ-gWqqtE

(I loved the "Miz is awful" chants)

 
HeroToTheMasses said:
I wish Bad News Barrett had better material to work with. Imagine how far he could have taken that fat women thing.
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My problems with Barrett are:

1.) His finishers are awful.

2.) His entrance themes are awful.

As an in-ring performer he is very sound. This "Bad News Barrett" thing is entertaining but does nothing for him in the long run. Why doesn't WWE do the right thing and just, you know, allow him to be a badass bare-knuckle brawler with an entrance theme that doesn't sound generic or sung by a boy band? If you have to give him a valet or manager, fine.

 
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Scorch said:
First week of December, according to Wikipedia. He's had a segment on nearly every show. It's awful.
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I agree. I watched the clip that KillerRamen posted and it was nothing like what I was expecting from someone with the moniker Bad News. Y'know, like this.

Bad_News_Brown.jpg


Bad News Allen is disappointed.

 
I just finished watching Smackdown on Hulu and I'm surprised no one mentioned that
Cesaro cleanly pinned Randy Orton.

http://youtu.be/FvCV6yBVz1M
:whee:

 
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What HydroX said. Pretty rad, though. 

I really enjoy watching Cesaro in the ring. I think his WWE body of work is far superior to what I remember of him in ROH.

 
Angry Man said:
Dish Network has dropped carrying WWE PPV starting with Elimination Chamber.
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I doubt WWE even cares very much. As long as the cable providers still offer them while WWE network is getting off the ground anyway. I'm betting the meeting went something like Dish asking them for more money or a higher share of the buy and they just walked away saying no.
 
DirecTV is still showing Elimination Chamber, saw an ad for it at Wendy's. Also CM Punk is still in the ad, just for a brief second though.

 
RedvsBlue said:
I doubt WWE even cares very much. As long as the cable providers still offer them while WWE network is getting off the ground anyway. I'm betting the meeting went something like Dish asking them for more money or a higher share of the buy and they just walked away saying no.
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There's rumors that DirecTV might be dropping WWE PPV soon due to the WWE Network launching.

 
Anyone want to make me feel guilty for skipping Raw this week? Grabbed the new Zelda for the 3DS earlier today from Best Buy and will be playing that instead.

 
Cesaro/Cena was damn good.  Lots of people shitting on the outcome of course..but still a damn fine match.  I would recommend watching that at least. 

Christian/Bryan and Roman/Henry match plus the aftermath with the Shield/Wyatts is also worth checking out.

 
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True, seemed kinda like his way of trying to one-up Cesaro's power stuff (the gutwrench, the outside-in superplex etc.)  Happy they protected the Neutralizer for the moment as well.

 
I like the IDEA of the roll Cena did (since Cesaro countered the FU before, this would be a way to do it out of nowhere), but it wasn't executed so great.
 
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