[quote name='dohdough']Subtly? There's nothing subtle about what I said.
If you think I'm wrong about how psychology and society work, then prove it instead of being passive aggressive. [/quote]
Had you candidly said "I think our society is to blame for their actions" I'd not have used the term subtle. Perhaps it was the wrong term. Maybe indirectly would be better? Thanks, I'll remember that for my next vocab lesson... Honestly though to me it seemed like you were avoiding using the word "blame" (or any word like it) for the role you thought society played in the actions of 2 people. Maybe that was not intentional and just what I read into it, but that is usually how interpretation works.
[quote name='dohdough']
Before I look up the "real clinical" definition, how about you re-read my post until you understand it. Or I know, read the last several posts I made because I already addressed your points. [/quote]
Are you referring to this?
[quote name='dohdough']Maybe because I don't? I just understand that a vast majority of people aren't(edit) narcissistic sociopaths.
Exactly. They're NOT crazy and that's the scary part. Given the same circumstances, upbringing, and experiences, how many of us would be capable of doing what they did? Psychology and sociology tells us that many of us are.
A psychopathologist was talking about triggers like this too.[/QUOTE]
That's the only thing I saw coming close to addressing my points and really that's nothing. You took some psychology terms and threw them into 3 separate quotes. In fact they even contradict themselves. 1st you say most of us are not sociopaths (not even the same as a psychopath by the way). Then you say many of us are capable of being doing what the bombers did with the same background and they were 2 totally not crazy people (even though you do not know this for a fact). Then it seems you said you heard someone saying something like a family split could be a trigger for a mental/psychological break (Ya think? But if it's a psychological trigger how is they are fine in the sanity department?). Other than that all you've done since you posted that paragraph is talk about Cambridge's degree of liberalism, inaccurately describe the bombers background a little (they did came here separately, the younger brother 1st
with his parents though they moved back later), then took some shots at other users and talked about the six degrees of separation theory. Though three degrees of influence would've been more apt perhaps.
Never did you really address any of the points I posed. Your argument is that you do not think they were disturbed or crazy. You essentially say society must own up to these acts that befell the victims and also act like these 2 were somehow victims of the same society. Yet you have said nothing to really indicate as such. You keep ducking the basic question of where exactly society failed them. Where? The who maybe their family who was seemingly distant and fractured. Interviews with neighbors from their childhood the mother & father began creating conspiracy theories based around religious fervor, etc. Well you went the other direction and are pinning the responsibility on society and saying we must fix it for the future. Yet you cannot say where society failed them? By your own account they are not crazy so that's not it. If society cannot account for what you say went wrong then how can we make sure these things don't happen again?
You said "we are them & they are us" I have not heard much of their background while in Chechnya. However, from their background since coming to the USA, neither seemed to live a life all that different from hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people in America. None of those people chose to become radical extremists, none of those people trained to build bombs, none of those people chose to blow up sidewalks full of people. Society apparently did not fail them, just these 2 right? What is society responsible or not responsible for in their lives? If they were somehow sent to prison or tormented for being muslim, etc. etc. I could maybe understand your logic, but it does not track for me when I've seen nothing out of the ordinary in how society has treated them.
You told me earlier to prove something instead of being passive aggressive, maybe that was on the money. So time to prove what you are saying, what is society's role here?
[quote name='dohdough']
Yeah, I TOTALLY said that society can fix EVERYTHING evil in the world. [/quote]
Sarcasm I believe you said something like it was society's duty to figure what was wrong and make sure it won't happen again. If you think society can actually stop things like this from repeating in history, you are absolutely naive. You said it, you opened the door.
The whole point behind the psychopath thing was this: Some people are broken and society literally cannot correct it. Psychopaths by definition have no empathy or conscience for others in the society, so how exactly does society in general account for something like that? I think it is our difference in how we currently view society's state. I may be wrong, but you seem to think our society needs to correct or account for something so these things don't happen. But to me our society is already coping as well as possible in trying to prevent these attacks, but as long as people exist these attacks will exist. We will do what we can to control and hopefully minimize it, but it's always going to be a temporary patch job. Or like you said earlier a Pyrrhic victory of sorts. It's sad, and I don't think any sane person likes it but that's the way it is.
[quote name='dohdough']
Nothing superficial about that!
[/QUOTE]
Sorry I forgot you had all the answers. So do tell us oh great & wise one, what is the difference between revenge and justice?
ing help or support could they have gotten? More friends provided by the government? They weren't living in the poor house scrounging for their next meal and starving to death. Honestly I think you guys just spew bullshit just because you like reading your own posts and feeling good about yourself afterwords.
