Bam Bam Bigelow's Memorial wrestling topic

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Anyone have / seen the Hardcore Homecoming DVDs? They any good?
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Now, what's the problem with pushing Christian as a smart and devious wrestler? He sure isn't gonna pass as a strongman or a hooker.[/QUOTE]
That's when Christian shines -- more so when they incorporate delusions of grandeur.

Christian / Cena Rap Battle

Christian: Tomko! Gimme a beat!

Tomko: No.

Edit:

As things stand now, Vince McMahon will be cutting promos on Donald Trump on episodes of RAW until March 12th. Trump will be appearing on television eventually, but when he actually does hinges on when his schedule frees up.
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Oh, boy~1
 
If anybody's interested I have a copy of Beyond The Mat available for sale or trade. It's the original version, not the Ringside Special Edition. The disc is in mint condition.
 
My dissertation, briefly, is looking at race and sex patterns in recidivism (rearrest/return to prison) rates, and how individual factors (education, substance abuser status, employment, etc) and community factors (the quality of neighborhood they return to after release, based on % nonwhite, unemployed, on public assistance, living in poverty, etc) change whether or not race and gender matter.

I have data on 16,000 ex-felons in Wayne County, but I need to find out what their criminal history is (or isn't) after release, otherwise I won't be able to do anything with the data. It's almost completely perfect, but I need to do a bit more digging.

The Hardcore Homecoming 1 DVD is good. It does a lot more to capture "ECW" than the current "ECW" does, ONS shows notwithstanding. I wouldn't buy the second one, because they had to remove the main event from the DVD (Dudleys versus Jerry Lynn and Justin Credible, I think, in a cage) because they were using IP and trademarks that the WWF owns. As a result, the DVD is neutered. I managed to download a prerelease from pwtorrents that has the cage match on it, and it's pretty good.

I think the wrestling industry is going to see some real interesting times in the next few years, what with WWF litigating itself into ruining other companies. You saw it with The Dudleys, you saw it with Justin Credible, and chances are you'll see it with Rob Van Dam when he jumps ship. He'll either stay with WWE because he can't be RVD anywhere else, or he'll jump to TNA and be given a stupid fucking name because the WWF is so deathly afraid of having good competition that it's outlitigating all the other companies. Guys like Tomko and Angle are lucky, because they wrestled for the WWE using their given names, and can keep them. The Dudleys got fuckin' shafted, and you'll see more and more of them doing so. Do you think CM Punk was smart enough to trademark his own name? (A search of registered trademarks says he wasn't smart enough).

Some people are quick and wise. A cursory search of "Christian Cage" shows 5 categories registered to "William Jason Reso."

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=tess&state=p334il.1.1

Try it out for yourself. See who owns what these days, and post your results.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']

I have data on 16,000 ex-felons in Wayne County, .[/quote]

Indiana? nah forget it u prob mean michigan

funny i look at the link you provided and on recent searches i see punk etc
 
[quote name='guyver2077']funny i look at the link you provided and on recent searches i see punk etc[/QUOTE]

Cut it out, ya nosey prick!

Or, better yer, check again after I enter "guyver sucks" into the search engine. ;)
 
I saw the first Hardcore Homecoming show and liked it, but it's got far worse wrestling than ONS '05. The second show only has the 3D vs. Sabu and Funk match taken off - the cage match is still on there, with Credible using "PJ Polaco", just as he did during his last TNA appearance. The November Reign set has a ton of extras, including matches from the HH house shows, and some fan cam matches from ECW. WWE didn't "screw" with those talents - they just enforced their trademarks, which many wrestling companies have done in the past. World Class did it with Lance Von Erich, for example, and they have been fairly lenient at times (allowing Waltman to use X-Pac on indy shows).

The Dudleys name issue is an interesting matter that seems to revolve around Heyman promising Ray and Devon the rights, but never actually getting it in writing, which WWE later did, and that's why they can't use the Dudley name outside of WWE. With Christian Cage, he was fortunate that he used the name before he went to any WWE-owned group, so he got the rights to use that name, but lost the rights to "Captain Charisma" because he came up with it while in WWE. WWE has bullied TNA a bit (like forcing them to change Kip James name from "the New Age Outlaw" to "the Outlaw" and then finally to "Kip James", DESPITE TNA registering "New Age Outlaw" after WWE let the trademark lapse, but for the most part, they've been even-handed in how they deal with people using their past WWE names and gimmicks. Christian escaped pretty much unscathed, and has even been able to keep his exact same ring attire and the logo WWE created for him.
 
[quote name='JaytheGamefan']WWE didn't "screw" with those talents - they just enforced their trademarks[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't cite indy shows as evidence of their benevolence. It actually reinforces the fact that they dicked around with trademarks like that. It's Heyman's fault that he promised the Dudleys their name, and it's WWE's fault for scooping it up and telling them that they can no longer use the name that they made for themselves *well* before they entered the WWF.

I still don't know how guys like Sabu, Sandman, and Raven managed to use their names elsewhere, yet some never was like Justin Credible (look, I like the guy a lot, and he was exceptionally nice when he didn't have to be, but he's never been much of anything in the business) gets shit on by WWE.

There's no defense for this, really. In many of these guys' cases, they never did shit in the WWE, and suddenly they can't use the names they established beforehand. Take Chris Kanyon, for instance.

Having forgotten the *entire* reason I began searching for trademarks to begin with, I now see that WWE owns everything related to and including the use of the name "Rob Van Dam." Would you dare tell me that they should have the right to tell him he can't use that name when he goes to TNA (legally, of course they do, but in good faith, can they really claim to have "made" him?)

EDIT: It sure seems like the WWE owns it, but as a measure of cross-referencing, a company from Stamford, CT, named "WCW, Inc." (yes, that's the registrant company) owns "Diamond Dallas Page," yet he used it in TNA. It will be interesting, and I fully expect to see WWE undercut RVD or whatever the shit his real name is, if he decides to leave WWE.
 
I remember reading a couple of years ago that RVD actually gave WWE all of the rights to "Rob Van Dam", and in most cases (like with real names), WWE just has them trademarked to prevent another company from advertising one of their talents on a show. WWE enforces their trademarks no matter if a guy talked shit about them or not - Tomko can't use "Tyson Tomko" outside of WWE, and it isn't because they're trying to be spiteful, they just don't want him using his WWE name outside of the company. TNA also can't call him "the problem solver" because he used that name in WWE, and after the "Captain Charisma" debacle, they don't want to get in trouble over something like that again. Sabu can use "Sabu" because he used it long before entering a WWE-owned company, and in the case of Raven, he trademarked the name for his own use - and is free to use it wherever he wants. It isn't WWE's fault that the Dudleys didn't actually check to see if they had the legal right to use the Dudley name - WWE bought the rights to ECW's footage and trademarks, and the Dudley name happened to be one of the things they purchased.

WWE has also gotten into hot water themselves for trademark issues (like using "ECW" stuff all over the Invasion despite having absolutely no ownership of it, and just going by Heyman saying that he owned it and transferred the rights over to them, which he had no right to do since he owned NOTHING by that point. WWE, just like the Dudleys, got duped by Heyman.

Lance Storm actually wrote a piece for his site about this issue and itemized the stuff that he himself can and can't use - he also discussed the Dudley name issue, and stated that one reason WWE comes off looking so bad is because few other companies actually enforce their trademarks, and he cited WCW as an example of this. I don't like seeing guys get their gimmicks changed around, but WWE is smart for doing it, as they shouldn't just allow other companies to use characters and gimmicks that they developed with their money and on their TV.
 
[quote name='JaytheGamefan']I remember reading a couple of years ago that RVD actually gave WWE all of the rights to "Rob Van Dam", and in most cases (like with real names), WWE just has them trademarked to prevent another company from advertising one of their talents on a show. WWE enforces their trademarks no matter if a guy talked shit about them or not - Tomko can't use "Tyson Tomko" outside of WWE, and it isn't because they're trying to be spiteful, they just don't want him using his WWE name outside of the company. TNA also can't call him "the problem solver" because he used that name in WWE, and after the "Captain Charisma" debacle, they don't want to get in trouble over something like that again. Sabu can use "Sabu" because he used it long before entering a WWE-owned company, and in the case of Raven, he trademarked the name for his own use - and is free to use it wherever he wants. It isn't WWE's fault that the Dudleys didn't actually check to see if they had the legal right to use the Dudley name - WWE bought the rights to ECW's footage and trademarks, and the Dudley name happened to be one of the things they purchased.[/quote]

Actually, there were no trademarks on anything "Dudleys" (wrestling-related, anyway) until April 2006. Heyman promised them the trademark, but he never filed for one, meaning it was always fair game, really.

Bringing up "Tyson Tomko," "Captain Charisma," and things like that aren't what I'm arguing, because all of that was developed during each guys' WWE tenure. They can claim to own this name, or that name - it's when they undercut guys who made their name before entering the WWE that pisses me off. Like Kanyon or Credible, neither of whom did shit in the WWE, but WWE can tell them how to use the names they established beforehand?

I understand that WWE is a business, first and foremost; sometimes what makes business sense isn't the nicest thing to do. I'm no fool. Other times, it makes sense to give someone the credit they deserve for what they achieved. Chris Kanyon was Chris Kanyon well before 2001, or whatever year WWF bought WCW. Chris Kanyon would have still been Chris Kanyon if the WWE never bought them. For them to demand that they own and dictate what somebody does when the character was fully established outside of their business is not ethical in the slightest, IMO. I'm talking completely about guys who made themselves outside the WWE. RVD is one of those guys, and he's gonna have to change his name to "Johnny "Frogsplash" Turpentine" because the WWE will *not* give him his name rights back. You heard it here first. He *may* be able to claim prior usage because he used the name before ECW. He also may not even bother trying to fight it in court, because god knows the WWE has the money to outlast him in court.

WWE has also gotten into hot water themselves for trademark issues (like using "ECW" stuff all over the Invasion despite having absolutely no ownership of it, and just going by Heyman saying that he owned it and transferred the rights over to them, which he had no right to do since he owned NOTHING by that point. WWE, just like the Dudleys, got duped by Heyman. Lance Storm actually wrote a piece for his site about this issue and itemized the stuff that he himself can and can't use - he also discussed the Dudley name issue, and stated that one reason WWE comes off looking so bad is because few other companies actually enforce their trademarks, and he cited WCW as an example of this.
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There's a difference between "getting into hot water" and what they've done to other guys. The WWE still owns the Dudley copyrights, and for no good reason. The only reason ECW mattered was because so many goddamn people and companies were owed money by ECW that anything using their business name became a probable source of remuneration for them (Acclaim was the only one I happen to recall). The WWE did not, and never did, stop using the ECW name or logo at a single time during that angle. You're talking apples and oranges - ECW was under bankruptcy at that point, meaning WWE had a chance to (and did) buy up all their IP and video footage when given a chance. Do the Dudleys have a chance to reclaim their names in a similar fashion?
 
They could try and take WWE to court, and they'd probably win, as they have the best case of anyone for the rights to the name, especially with Raven claiming that he came up with the "Dudley" gimmick. Guys doing stuff before they entered WWE or doing very little in WWE doesn't really matter - if WWE owns the rights to a company they were in before WWE (like ECW), there's a good chance that WWE took over ownership of the trademarks. A guy being used minimally by WWE also doesn't really matter, like in Kanyon's case - if WWE owns a trademark, they're going to enforce it. They've been fairly lenient on "Chris Kanyon" as well, only forcing a name change on a TNA show, and allowing it to be used on the 6:05 Reunion PPV. The issue with Justin Credible is a really odd one, since they didn't bother asking him to change it when he worked for TNA in '03, and didn't go after WSX for using the name.

WWE even allowed TNA to show guys coming out in ECW shirts in a stable with "Extreme" in its title, but then had a change of heart in '05 on each matter when they suddenly got protective of ECW stuff (as evidenced by Hardcore Homecoming going through a ton of legal red tape), and Credible being forced into a name change. They seem to not mind guys using names, gimmicks, or even themes they own unless there's money to be made from it - they allowed TNT Pro Wrestling to use "X-Pac" and the DX theme on DVD, complete with a green screen overlay for him - it simply wasn't worth their money to go after them, since, like the 6:05 Reunion show, it was too low profile to justify the expense of suing them.

Here's the Dudley Boyz trademark filing I found, which predates April '06 by years - http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=lmldhl.2.1
 
It's ok though, because "SZAT-KOW-SKI" has the same cadence and rhymes with "R-V-D." Ha ha, WWE! You snooze you lose! Make way for "Sir Thursday Fight" Rob Szatkowski!
 
I can't see the Dudleys trademark you found, Jay; any chance you can cut and paste what it says?

EDIT: Oh, crap...I see the problem. I meant to say that the only trademarks I see are those for the Dudleys filed in April *2004*, not 2006. My mistake. Nevertheless, seeing as how they were in the WWE for 4-5 years or more by that point, I think it's pretty indicative of what the WWE's plans were.

EDIT2: You can see the political process of what trademarks they hang onto if you do an owner search for "world wrestling entertainment." You can see that their trademark for Chris Jericho is no longer active, meaning he can compete in TNA (not that I see it happening, as much as I'd love to) as Chris Jericho.

It seems that trademarks on "Shawn Michaels," "Hardcore Holly," and others are dead also. I'll have to look and see who owns them at the moment. Who the hell is "Takashi," and why are there so many bloomin' trademarks for him? Moreover, since "The Problem Solver" and "Tyson Tomko" are abandoned/dead trademarks, what's to stop TNA from picking them up and using them?
 
Using that TESS search it seems the Spike Dudley trademark was abandoned 12/14/06.

Also says "New Age Outlaw" was abandoned 03/22/06. Maybe I'm not searching right?
 
[quote name='PhrostByte']Using that TESS search it seems the Spike Dudley trademark was abandoned 12/14/06.

Also says "New Age Outlaw" was abandoned 03/22/06. Maybe I'm not searching right?[/QUOTE]

You're reading it right. the Outlaw trademark was abandoned by TNA after WWE threatened (?) them. It seems legally strange to me - the way I interpret it, "LIVE" means "legally enforcable" and "DEAD" means "nobody owns or claims rights to it."

Now, what I don't think this means is that you can search for a dead "Shawn Michaels" trademark and file it yourself, then send WWE a legal letter telling them they owe you money each and every time his name is used from the day your trademark was approved. Somehow I don't think that's the case, but I'm also no expert on trademark law.

It's interesting to see that "Spike Dudley" is dead, but if you look at the trademark, it was filed in November of 2005, several months after the Dudleys left WWE, and the person filing is "Matthew Hyson," the person who was Spike and is now Brother Runt. So, it seems rather complex; if the WWE owns the trademark, TESS isn't showing it. Perhaps since the WWE owns the "Dudley Boyz" stuff, than perhaps anything related to that is not allowed. I have no idea, truth be told, but I'd like to get to the bottom of this. WWE didn't make RVD, and Chris Jericho could have been huge in WCW had they not booked him the way they did. Nevertheless, both characters, if they ever appear in TNA (still a long shot, IMO), could feasibly be restricted from using their names by the WWE.
 
http://www.wwe.com/shows/royalrumble/4011430/

What a joke, the WWE fantasy Rumble here.

Still in it are Rock, Hogan, Austin, Taker, Kane, Benoit, HHH, HBK, Bret Hart and... Batista? Wtf? Why has WWE's fanbase allowed Batista to last longer than 2/3 of the other guys.

In their order placed:

11. Ric Flair
12. Andre the Giant
13. Big Show
14. Mick Foley
15. British Bulldog
16. Diesel
17. Mr. Perfect
18. Yokozuna
19. Brock Lesnar
20. Big John Studd
21. Rey Mysterio
22. Lex Luger
23. John Cena
24. Hacksaw Jim Duggan
25. Greg "The Hammer" Valentine
26. Tito Santana
27. Bob Backlund
28. Rick Martel
29. Bushwhacker... Luke or Butch
30. Vince McMahon


hmm, that makes 9,999 posts, scary
 
I read something somewhere, from Spike, that he is able to use the name "Spike Dudley", as he had it copyrighted, but doesn't in order to fit in with the whole "Brother" thing that the Dudley's have to do.

Also, they were using "The Deadly Boyz" for a while. Wonder if WWE cried about that.
 
[quote name='Zenithian Legend']http://www.wwe.com/shows/royalrumble/4011430/

What a joke, the WWE fantasy Rumble here.

Still in it are Rock, Hogan, Austin, Taker, Kane, Benoit, HHH, HBK, Bret Hart and... Batista? Wtf? Why has WWE's fanbase allowed Batista to last longer than 2/3 of the other guys.

In their order placed:

11. Ric Flair
12. Andre the Giant
13. Big Show
14. Mick Foley
15. British Bulldog
16. Diesel
17. Mr. Perfect
18. Yokozuna
19. Brock Lesnar
20. Big John Studd
21. Rey Mysterio
22. Lex Luger
23. John Cena
24. Hacksaw Jim Duggan
25. Greg "The Hammer" Valentine
26. Tito Santana
27. Bob Backlund
28. Rick Martel
29. Bushwhacker... Luke or Butch
30. Vince McMahon


hmm, that makes 9,999 posts, scary[/quote]

I can't believe Cena and Mysterio are so far down the list.
 
[quote name='Brak']I read something somewhere, from Spike, that he is able to use the name "Spike Dudley", as he had it copyrighted, but doesn't in order to fit in with the whole "Brother" thing that the Dudley's have to do.

Also, they were using "The Deadly Boyz" for a while. Wonder if WWE cried about that.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, they still own that trademark. Funny thing is the ownership listed on the "Deadly" stuff: Bubba Ray Dudley, Inc. :lol:

I wish Spike would use Spike. Nobody in their mid-30's should use "Brother Runt." Then again, it's sort of that question that pops up from time to time with regard to aging punk bands from the early 80's: when you reunite in your 40's to tour, can you still use the word "youth" in your band name?
 
"Brother Spike" would fit in nicely with the channel. Some synergy there, you know.

Let's start up a CAG fund to buy these old (and fairly useless) trademarks. Come on, you know you want to be co-owner of "New Age Outlaws."
 
I checked around, Meltzer did say that Robbie does indeed own the RVD name.

...now, whether he JUST owns RVD or actually owns "Rob Van Dam" as well, I'm not sure.

That said, even if he only owns RVD I think it would be good enough. The Van Dam name is no longer relevant anyway, since Jean Claude is long out of the spotlight.
 
[quote name='KaneRobot']That said, even if he only owns RVD I think it would be good enough. The Van Dam name is no longer relevant anyway, since Jean Claude is long out of the spotlight.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but that's part of his appeal...

It'd be disastrous if he couldn't use Rob Van Dam (or RVD) at other promotions... I'd settle on RVD, though -- at the very least, Mr. [Insert Day Here] Night. Again, at the very least.

I just hope he doesn't use Robbie V.
 
[quote name='Zenithian Legend']http://www.wwe.com/shows/royalrumble/4011430/

What a joke, the WWE fantasy Rumble here.

Still in it are Rock, Hogan, Austin, Taker, Kane, Benoit, HHH, HBK, Bret Hart and... Batista? Wtf? Why has WWE's fanbase allowed Batista to last longer than 2/3 of the other guys.

In their order placed:

11. Ric Flair
12. Andre the Giant
13. Big Show
14. Mick Foley
15. British Bulldog
16. Diesel
17. Mr. Perfect
18. Yokozuna
19. Brock Lesnar
20. Big John Studd
21. Rey Mysterio
22. Lex Luger
23. John Cena
24. Hacksaw Jim Duggan
25. Greg "The Hammer" Valentine
26. Tito Santana
27. Bob Backlund
28. Rick Martel
29. Bushwhacker... Luke or Butch
30. Vince McMahon


hmm, that makes 9,999 posts, scary[/quote]

Hogan and Batista are gone now.
 
I woudln't be surprised if WWE claimed to own "Robbie V", as it was only a name he only used in WCW. Anyways, there has been yet another death in pro wrestling, as Doug Gentry of ROH and RF Video fame, passed away.

From the Wrestling Observer site -
Doug Gentry, one of the people behind the Ring of Honor promotion when it started along with Rob Feinstein and Gabe Sapolsky, passed away this morning at the age of 34.

Gentry was suffering from heart disease and was in need of a replacement heart valve. He suffered a severe heart attack at about 3 a.m. last night that proved to be fatal.

Gentry was the on-paper owner of ROH and RF Video after the Feinstein scandal. When Cary Silkin purchased the complete ownership of ROH from Gentry, who Feinstein transfered his stock to, he was no longer part of the company.

Gentry and Feinstein remained working together with RF Video untli his death.
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Team 3D trademarked "the Deadly Brothers", and gave "Deadly" monikers to Spike, themselves, and even Sign Guy, but WWE went after them since it was too close to "Dudley", so they just use their first names now for all companies, although in Japan, "Bubba Ray" is used. WWE seems to have eased up on that particular issue, as they didn't force TNA to change Shane Douglas calling him "Bubba" on Impact.
 
[quote name='coolcolt']Is anyone going to watch Wrestling Society X tonight?[/QUOTE]
What time, EST?
 
I'm looking forward to it a lot, although I'm not expecting much, as it's only half an hour long, and was said to be the worst show of the first season. It'll be on at 11 PM EST.
 
What was the point of having Helms job to Goldberg Jr.?

Man... WWE does some weird shit.
 
[quote name='Brak']What was the point of having Helms job to Batista?

Man... WWE does some weird shit.[/quote]
Precisely. Helms is a thousand times more interesting to watch than Batista. I would've been absolutely ecstatic if he had beaten him but we all know there was absolutely no chance of that. WWE treats the CW title with the respect equal to an Employee of the Month award. Smackdown is easily their best show for the moment but pumping up the CW division would make it almost complaint-free.

EDIT: I quoted you too soon, Brak.:) To be fair, at least Goldberg had a certain mystique about him initially. Batista=zzzzzzzzzzzzz.
 
Hahaha. To Goldberg's credit, I agree.

Batista is just WWE's half-assed vision of Goldberg.

In addition to their cruiserweight title being a joke, let's look at the wasteland that is the tag division.

Truly disappointing.
 
[quote name='evilmax17']Looking forward to WSX, but 30 minutes (including the inevitable band performance)? That's kind of disheartening...[/QUOTE]
That's MTV for you.

Granted, they don't know if this is a sure thing... but I have a feeling it won't catch on as a result of it being so short (and being on at a strange time).
 
The band performance is only between matches, as a lead-in to commercial breaks.

If they're airing the pilot, watch it. The first match has Jack Evans vs Matt Sydal, and is a fun spotfest between a couple of great highflyers. The main event is the X-Rules Ladder match to determine who'll wrestle for their title. It's got "Justin Credible" (PJ Polaco sounds dumb), New Jack, Teddy Hart, Vampiro, 6Pac (Sean Waltman), Chris Hamrick, Al Katrazz, Puma, and Kaos taking part - it's an over the top rope battle royal/ladder match combo with tons of crazy spots.

Basically, the reports are that WSX comes off how you'd think Combat Zone would if MTV produced it.
 
My friend and I were just talking about Kane's first words so I decided to post the video of it.

[MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5p5T25sFvE[/MEDIA]
 
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