GGT 131 Has got dat ice cold water, and it's only $1

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[quote name='manthing']
You don't get it. Retail games are too expensive to produce nowadays w/o mainstream support, which is why we always hear about when big budget game X dies at retail.

And without retail, thus mainstream support, the future of gaming is $15(more likely $20-$25 in a few months) XBLA/PSN releases.

Without the carrot of 1M+ in sales(Homefront sold 3M?!?!), devs will have no incentive to drop $millions into games and we'll end up w/ iOS ports on our new Xbox1080s/PS4s, or nothing but SEGA Marvel movie companion games.

We're no longer in the NES era where a company can pay for an Adamms Family license and put Uncle Fester in a game where he fights aliens w/ a flame gun.[/QUOTE]I do get it. I just really don't think that digital distribution and preorder bonuses matter to the mainstream (I assume by mainstream we're talking about the people that just own 1 system and only play military shooters, mini games, or fitness titles). A majority of people that buy games just buy from whoever they think has the coolest thing. They don't boycott like hardcore gamers because there's multiple exclusives, they straight don't give a fuck. DD is huge and the mainstream gamers I've met are all for it because it means they don't have to change out a disc.

Also, you know why so many games die in the market? Because they produce too many goddamn copies. Everyone needs to take a page from Atlus and do what they did with Demon's Souls. Game was a pretty good financial success because they didn't print a shit ton of copies. Sure, sometimes there won't be enough copies to go around when it first comes out, but that's why preorders exist in the first place. Between in-game ads and limiting themselves with print runs then shit will be fine.

(It's still fucking awesome I get a costume code with my Batman figga).
 
[quote name='RelentlessRolento']top want ever since it was shown a month ago (plus suko would love the URL):

http://www.lolli.jp/

Lolli.jpg



plus its mostly done.[/QUOTE]
I can't wait for this game. Love Suda.
[quote name='Jesus_S_Preston']I want to get something off PSN to play on my train trip on the PSP, under 17 dollars? Suggest[/QUOTE]
Ridge Racer is the best game in the series, The Warriors is a fun beat-em up, Half-Minute Hero is a fantastic play on old school RPGs, Castlevania the Dracula X Chronicles is two great Castlevania games in one package, Gurumin is a fun, lighthearted action RPG. There's probably many more I can add that I'll remember later.
 
[quote name='Jesus_S_Preston']I want to get something off PSN to play on my train trip on the PSP, under 17 dollars? Suggest[/QUOTE]
Darkstalkers
Buzz
Mega Man Maverick Hunter X
MGS: Portable Ops
Peggle
Crash Team Racing
Bug's Life
Toy Story 2
Pocket Fighter

Edit: I agree with Rei's recommendations.
 
That list is missing MGS: PEACE MOTHER fuckING WALKER. Spend the extra $3 bucks for it.

Also remember that PSone games can be put on the PSP too. So see: FF's, Final Fantasy Tactics, Vagrant Story, Xenogears, Alundra, etc.
 
[quote name='Jesus_S_Preston']I want to get something off PSN to play on my train trip on the PSP, under 17 dollars? Suggest[/QUOTE]

FF Tactics, Syphon Filter: Logan's Shadow, SOCOM 1, Sega Genesis Collection, Prinny 1, Twisted Metal, Mega Man Maverick Hunter X, Street Fighter Alpha 3, Darkstalkers Chronicles, MGS: Portable Ops (but NOT Ops Plus), Midway Arcade Treasures, Justice League: Heroes, Hot Shots Golf, Capcom Classics 1/2, Castlevania, Disgaea 1.

Also don't forget PS1 games like FF 7-9, Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, Alundra, Resident Evil, Twisted Metal 2, etc.
 
[quote name='Rei no Otaku']I'm on Steam now if anyone wants to add me. Don't have much in the way of games yet though.[/QUOTE]

I saw your request and was wondering why I didn't add you sooner, but now I know. :cool:
 
[quote name='j-cart']That list is missing MGS: PEACE MOTHER fuckING WALKER. Spend the extra $3 bucks for it.

Also remember that PSone games can be put on the PSP too. So see: FF's, Final Fantasy Tactics, Vagrant Story, Xenogears, Alundra, etc.[/QUOTE]
I believe Peace Walker is still $29.
[quote name='corrosivefrost']what's your steam name, rei? i searched to add reinootaku and it didn't find you.[/QUOTE]
That's weird. I added you though so it should be all set.
 
[quote name='CaptainJoel']Yeah, I saw them earlier today. fucking awesome! for anyone wanting a key for who is from where:

1. Beyond - UK Gamestop/MightyApe
2. DKR - Collector's Edition
3. Earth-1 redesign AKA Current Bruce Wayne costume - MightyApe
4. Caped Crusader - Toys R Us, allegedly comes packed inside a box with a Caped Crusader repaint of AC Batman/Shopto Preorders for the UK
5. TAS Batman - Spanish preorder bonus/MightyApe
6. Dark Knight - Unknown[/QUOTE]

But I don't like in the UK!

I"m sure they'll all be up for download at some point anyways..
 
You guys had a drunk skype night!?

I already got the drunk, I just need the skype
and the invite
.

[quote name='Rei no Otaku']I'm on Steam now if anyone wants to add me. Don't have much in the way of games yet though.[/QUOTE]

It's cool. I just like having more friends. It's like facebook
which I've managed to stay away from
, but better.
 
[quote name='CaptainJoel']I do get it. I just really don't think that digital distribution and preorder bonuses matter to the mainstream (I assume by mainstream we're talking about the people that just own 1 system and only play military shooters, mini games, or fitness titles). A majority of people that buy games just buy from whoever they think has the coolest thing. They don't boycott like hardcore gamers because there's multiple exclusives, they straight don't give a fuck. DD is huge and the mainstream gamers I've met are all for it because it means they don't have to change out a disc. [/QUOTE]

Your view of the mainstream gamer is skewed quite a bit. Kids/teens are also factored into my 'mainstream gamer', not just 18-34 males. Do they buy military shooters? Yes. They also buy Madden every year and maybe a few other EA Sports titles, then whatever game Gamestop puts posters up for that month. And why does GS make bigger and bigger profits every quarter? Those gamers selling 'Generic FPS of the Month' back to GS for $20 2 weeks after release.


And Mini Games and Fitness titles? Those are :wii: owners who buy the system, Mario Kart, Wii Fit, play them and Wii Sports for a few weeks then let the system collect dust. Those people don't count.

Don't you live on a military base? Y'all probably got superfast internet piped in for free, so your frame of reference for online gamers is most likely skewed.

A majority of gaming systems sold never go online. Let's use the most popular online system,:360: . Microshit just celebrated 30M XBOX LIVE accounts, and 60M sold right?

How many people who have connected have multiple accounts on their system? I know I have 4 or 5 LIVE accounts I created for GFs, foreign accounts, and family members. There's NO way that there's a 1:1 ratio of systems sold and LIVE accounts. So that shows a majority of :360: systems never go online.

[quote name='CaptainJoel']Also, you know why so many games die in the market? Because they produce too many goddamn copies. Everyone needs to take a page from Atlus and do what they did with Demon's Souls. Game was a pretty good financial success because they didn't print a shit ton of copies. Sure, sometimes there won't be enough copies to go around when it first comes out, but that's why preorders exist in the first place.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry, but the fact you think the disc manufacturing costs are the reason games die shows you don't understand the fundamental economics of the industry.

*Puts his Pachter hat on*

I don't remember the actual numbers when I read an article during the :hd:/:br: war, but DL :dvd: cost $0.60 to produce in quantity back then and a :br: cost $1.20 to produce back then. It's safe to assume those numbers have gone down in 4 years and with the standardization of the :br: format.

Let's assume there were 30,000 copies of Demon Souls(your example, and that # is probably too low), including a manual(printing costs are REALLY cheap), case and shipping, your looking at ~$50K-$60K. That's most likely less than 10% of the cost to produce a High Def game release.


[quote name='CaptainJoel']in-game ads then shit will be fine.
[/QUOTE]

whut.jpg
 
[quote name='manthing']Your view of the mainstream gamer is skewed quite a bit. Kids/teens are also factored into my 'mainstream gamer', not just 18-34 males. Do they buy military shooters? Yes. They also buy Madden every year and maybe a few other EA Sports titles, then whatever game Gamestop puts posters up for that month. And why does GS make bigger and bigger profits every quarter? Those gamers selling 'Generic FPS of the Month' back to GS for $20 2 weeks after release.[/QUOTE]I still consider kids and teens to be in that mainstream market. I'll clarify, when I mean mainstream I mean your typical summer blockbuster crowd. They get the game because of the advertising and reviews make the game sound and look cool, so they buy for the marketed experience.


And Mini Games and Fitness titles? Those are :wii: owners who buy the system, Mario Kart, Wii Fit, play them and Wii Sports for a few weeks then let the system collect dust. Those people don't count.

Don't you live on a military base? Y'all probably got superfast internet piped in for free, so your frame of reference for online gamers is most likely skewed.
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I was being very general, not actually meaning that FPSes and mini games are all these people play, just a majority of what they play are probably shovelware, EA titles, and just absolute as mainstream as mainstream can be. I do live on a military base and no, internet here is like everywhere else I've ever lived. We have one ISP that has a military contract and as such they are the only ones we can buy our internet from.

A majority of gaming systems sold never go online. Let's use the most popular online system,:360: . Microshit just celebrated 30M XBOX LIVE accounts, and 60M sold right?

How many people who have connected have multiple accounts on their system? I know I have 4 or 5 LIVE accounts I created for GFs, foreign accounts, and family members. There's NO way that there's a 1:1 ratio of systems sold and LIVE accounts. So that shows a majority of :360: systems never go online.
Click to expand...
I do understand that not every console goes online, but I don't think the numbers are as big as that. I really think that at least a quarter of those Xboxs that are bought never go online because they're either secondary consoles to someone's main that they keep online or they're for pirating purposes. I know plenty of people that buy a second or even third Xbox just so it can sit in another room offline for their kid or wife. You are right about there being a lot of people that never go online, which is why I say it's adapt or die. Mainstream gamers need to realize that they HAVE to get online because it's the final frontier of gaming. Sure, poorer people won't be able to access it because they probably can't afford the internet, but as time goes on and internet prices go down a bit I'm sure that at least half of those who aren't now will be on.



I'm sorry, but the fact you think the disc manufacturing costs are the reason games die shows you don't understand the fundamental economics of the industry.

*Puts his Pachter hat on*

I don't remember the actual numbers when I read an article during the :hd:/:br: war, but DL :dvd: cost $0.60 to produce in quantity back then and a :br: cost $1.20 to produce back then. It's safe to assume those numbers have gone down in 4 years and with the standardization of the :br: format.

Let's assume there were 30,000 copies of Demon Souls(your example, and that # is probably too low), including a manual(printing costs are REALLY cheap), case and shipping, your looking at ~$50K-$60K. That's most likely less than 10% of the cost to produce a High Def game release.
Click to expand...
I never said it was disc cost (at least I didn't mean it that way if I did) and I understand that discs are relatively cheap to produce and print, I'm saying that (at least from what I've heard and read) Demon's Souls was and still is one of the best selling titles that Atlus had mainly because between word of mouf, advertising, and lower print runs it made tons of people want it. I have tons of friends that aren't into games at all (aside from the casual Call of Duty or fighting game) but just the fact that they heard of Demon's Souls and they never saw it on store shelves made them want it even more. What I'm saying is, between now and whenever we go fully 100% digital for these companies to be able to keep making games they should learn to create an artificial demand for their stuff and then slowly leak out extra print runs. Sure, we'll probably see a few games completely fail because their marketers don't understand it, but maybe that's what it'll take to make sure that we don't have another crash.

You're right about an artificial demand not covering much of dev costs, though. Which is why I said what I did last: In-game ads. I'll admit, I have no idea how much in-game ad space is selling for now (I can't even find a story on it), but I remember a story when Burnout 3 came out talking about how much money they made from selling the billboards in the game to ad agencies and it was a ton! Sure, it wasn't enough to completely cover development, but it was easily enough to make it so that if Burnout 3 had been a flop that it wouldn't have hurt EA. If in-game ads will just evolve a little faster I could easily see at least half of dev costs being covered, the people that want the ads just have to be assured that the game they have an ad in will be seen by either their target demo or the people that they think know nothing of them. Sure, more in-game ads probably means that we're going to have to deal with Axe and Coke in our games, but if that's what it's going to take for us to keep it going then I think we should sell out.
 
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I swear to God, I'm going to track down and beat the shit out of whoever decided to turn off all my schools' servers so I can't do shit.
 
[quote name='CaptainJoel']I swear to God, I'm going to track down and beat the shit out of whoever decided to turn off all my schools' servers so I can't do shit.[/QUOTE]

Possibly the school
 
Wipeout HD has ads during loading.

Hell one of the Wipeout Pure skins was a Coca Cola theme. However I guess it makes sense because it is a racing game and racing will always have ads in real life.
 
[quote name='Japanese Dorito']Possibly the school[/QUOTE]They told me that had to "reboot them because of an error. I don't know if that's true or not, but it's annoying as shit because I need to get on the site to find out what I need to do, sure I could email my professor but they only have one form of contact. Through their email on the school's site and email's currently down.

FML.

[quote name='corrosivefrost']inFamous 2 had these jarring "Subway - $5 footlong" shops all over in New Marais. That was fucked up.[/QUOTE]
XD I can imagine! I remember that I thought the Alan Wake in-game ads were awesome when I first saw them.
 
Wow. I like Yang much more than Yun. I like Yun's appearance better than Yang's. I need to get AE on PC so I can do a model swap. :lol:
The rekka input and the crossup dash... much better. ^_^
 
[quote name='corrosivefrost']inFamous 2 had these jarring "Subway - $5 footlong" shops all over in New Marais. That was fucked up.[/QUOTE]

Really? I did not notice those at all.
 
[quote name='BlueScrote']Really? I did not notice those at all.[/QUOTE]

I saw em all over the place -- either that or I ended up at the same intersections all the time.
Did you play through the game once? That probably helps too... I played twice in a row and platinum'ed it, so that might've added to the feeling of seeing it all over the place. :lol:

subwayinfamous.jpg


Only on the first island though. Maybe it's only the one, I don't know. *shrug*
 
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You know what I'd like? Voluntary product placement for free PSN bucks or MS points, or free DLC shit if you elect to receive ads while gaming.

Would be fucking sweet. Show me all the Subway ads and product placement you want if that means I get free shit. If I have to pay $60 for a game and fire it up to see ads on my system dashboard, then fire up the game to see more ads, then Imma be pissed.

Or how about offer a $40 version of a game that's ad supported to go with the $60 ad free version? Nah, that wouldn't fly because motherfuckers are super greedy.
 
[quote name='corrosivefrost']I saw em all over the place -- either that or I ended up at the same intersections all the time.
Did you play through the game once? That probably helps too... I played twice in a row and platinum'ed it, so that might've added to the feeling of seeing it all over the place. :lol:

subwayinfamous.jpg


Only on the first island though. Maybe it's only the one, I don't know. *shrug*[/QUOTE]
I only noticed the one. Pretty sure there's only one of them in the game. That kind of product placement I don't mind because it makes sense. I expect there to be fast food places throughout a city.
[quote name='hankmecrankme']You know what I'd like? Voluntary product placement for free PSN bucks or MS points, or free DLC shit if you elect to receive ads while gaming.

Would be fucking sweet. Show me all the Subway ads and product placement you want if that means I get free shit. If I have to pay $60 for a game and fire it up to see ads on my system dashboard, then fire up the game to see more ads, then Imma be pissed.

Or how about offer a $40 version of a game that's ad supported to go with the $60 ad free version? Nah, that wouldn't fly because motherfuckers are super greedy.[/QUOTE]
My main issue is why are there still ads on the 360 dashboard if you're paying for a gold account? One of the many reasons I refuse to do so.
 
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[quote name='Rei no Otaku']My main issue is why are there still ads on the 360 dashboard if you're paying for a gold account? One of the many reasons I refuse to do so.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I fucking hate that shit. :bomb:

As uraizen so eloquently put it "More ads than a porn site."
 
We're in a world of marketing, guys. If there's a place for an ad, they'll sell it. I don't blame them, if I had land I wasn't using at all I would sure as hell sell it to McDonalds. Hank, with the rise in dev costs it'd probably be more like the $60 version of the game having ads and the $80 version not. Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, they could even bypass the ads using a $20 online pass so that the ad-less version doesn't have a higher perceived value than the ad version in GameStop.
 
[quote name='Rei no Otaku']My main issue is why are there still ads on the 360 dashboard if you're paying for a gold account? One of the many reasons I refuse to do so.[/QUOTE]

They gotta promote that amazing Skyrim pre-order at Gamestop, duh ;)
 
[quote name='corrosivefrost']I saw em all over the place -- either that or I ended up at the same intersections all the time.
Did you play through the game once? That probably helps too... I played twice in a row and platinum'ed it, so that might've added to the feeling of seeing it all over the place. :lol:

subwayinfamous.jpg

Only on the first island though. Maybe it's only the one, I don't know. *shrug*[/QUOTE]

I only saw the one, which was on the first island, it was next to "Red Ring Electronics".
 
So I was playing the Hulk and just running around breaking shit and the game locks up my entire system. My controller is still vibrating though, so I thought that maybe the game was about to unfreeze, so I wait... and I wait.... Then I finally go over and turn off my 360 and guess what? Now my controller will not vibrate anymore! fuckin' Hulk broke my controller!
 
[quote name='CaptainJoel']We're in a world of marketing, guys. If there's a place for an ad, they'll sell it. I don't blame them, if I had land I wasn't using at all I would sure as hell sell it to McDonalds. Hank, with the rise in dev costs it'd probably be more like the $60 version of the game having ads and the $80 version not. Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, they could even bypass the ads using a $20 online pass so that the ad-less version doesn't have a higher perceived value than the ad version in GameStop.[/QUOTE]
You seem really aologetic towards these companies about a lot of things. Whether its store specific DLC (Arkham City), selling you half a game for full price and making you buy the rest of it later for $40 (MvC3), or ads in a product you paid for. I'll be the first to say that if I want a game I don't care about that stuff either, but at the same time I'm not going to just accept it. That's how we got into this situation in the first place.

If costs are too high, then shit needs to be scaled back. There are a number of business models that can be followed to do this. Just because they choose not to doesn't mean I'm going to sit back and just go "Oh well, that's just the way it is."
 
I don't mind in game ads as long as they make sense--i.e that the game is set in the real world. In such cases it's odd not to see ads since ads are everywhere.

But they're annoying if they pop up in games not set in the real world as they seem out of place.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']I don't mind in game ads as long as they make sense--i.e that the game is set in the real world. In such cases it's odd not to see ads since ads are everywhere.

But they're annoying if they pop up in games not set in the real world as they seem out of place.[/QUOTE]

Amen. If I'm leading my black ops team in Calladuty Black Ops, I'd better be driving a Jeep Wrangler, not some knockoff. :nottalking:
 
[quote name='corrosivefrost']I saw em all over the place -- either that or I ended up at the same intersections all the time.
Did you play through the game once? That probably helps too... I played twice in a row and platinum'ed it, so that might've added to the feeling of seeing it all over the place. :lol:

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/4465/subwayinfamous.jpg

Only on the first island though. Maybe it's only the one, I don't know. *shrug*[/QUOTE]

I played through it once. Definitely never noticed that.

[quote name='Rei no Otaku']You seem really aologetic towards these companies about a lot of things. Whether its store specific DLC (Arkham City), selling you half a game for full price and making you buy the rest of it later for $40 (MvC3), or ads in a product you paid for. I'll be the first to say that if I want a game I don't care about that stuff either, but at the same time I'm not going to just accept it. That's how we got into this situation in the first place.

If costs are too high, then shit needs to be scaled back. There are a number of business models that can be followed to do this. Just because they choose not to doesn't mean I'm going to sit back and just go "Oh well, that's just the way it is."[/QUOTE]

That's kind of what I was thinking as well. Companies are just manipulating gamer's excitability about new shit and most are too dumb too realize it.
 
[quote name='Rei no Otaku']You seem really aologetic towards these companies about a lot of things. Whether its store specific DLC (Arkham City), selling you half a game for full price and making you buy the rest of it later for $40 (MvC3), or ads in a product you paid for. I'll be the first to say that if I want a game I don't care about that stuff either, but at the same time I'm not going to just accept it. That's how we got into this situation in the first place.

If costs are too high, then shit needs to be scaled back. There are a number of business models that can be followed to do this. Just because they choose not to doesn't mean I'm going to sit back and just go "Oh well, that's just the way it is."[/QUOTE]
I'm not apologetic, I just want to work in the business (on the marketing side) and I know this works. I don't like preorder bonuses, but they're there as an incentive to the mainstream people to want to buy at certain places and I may not like it, but completely understand it. I don't give a fuck about ads in-game, I have no problem whatsoever with them. I see them on tv and in periodicals all the time and now that the gaming industry has grown I think that it's time for them to make that leap and put them into games.

You're right, it would help if development would be scaled back, it is not going to happen unless another industry wide crash occurs though, and I do not see that happening anytime soon.
 
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