GGT 179: featuring a link to the extended Ches-ka/Mo Chocolate sex scene

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I haven't finished ME2, probably won't for a while. So I'm not even going to discuss ME3, other than I watched the endings on Youtube and laughed. ^__^

[quote name='linkpwns']CISPA won't pass.
It can't pass.
Right guys?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/18/cispa-unprecedented-access-internet-privacy[/QUOTE]
Goddamn, these overpowered bills show up every month. Somebody's got a hard on for that shit.

[quote name='ihadFG']ME3 is my favorite in the series. Haters can hate all they want.:booty:[/QUOTE]
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I'm hesitant to pay any attention to Journey. Looks great, but it could easily be a bunch of wanking. No PS3, anyway.
[quote name='dothog']What's the thin line separating traditional action-adventure from the so-called action RPG? XP?

Morbo is feeling a little fuzzy headed right now when it comes to genre distinction.[/QUOTE]
Player agency and character building.

JRPGs fuck everything up, though.
 
[quote name='j-cart']I'm going to say it, ME is an RPG?[/QUOTE]

[quote name='ihadFG']I'd say ME3 ranks somewhere between ME1 and ME2 on the "Is it an RPG?" scale.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I'd agree with that.

I don't really get hung up on genre label debates. To me an RPGs is pretty much any story based game, where you're in the role of the main character and exploring the world and doing quests.

To get more specific you get into the sub-genres like JRPG or WRPG, and more specific things like strategy RPG, action RPG, action/adventure etc. that are still murky and really just useless for anything other than giving hardcore gamer nerds shit to argue about online.

I prefer the ME style RPGs (whatever subgenre you want to call them) as I couldn't give a fuck about spending time tweaking character appearance, allocating level up points across a bunch of categories, managing inventory and loot etc.

I just like advancing the story, exploring the world/universe and doing quests. All the leveling, inventory etc. in a lot of RPGs is just time wasted apart from all that stuff. So in something like Dragon Age or Bethesda RPGs I generally just turn the difficulty down so I don't have to waste as much time trying to optimize my character and can just wander around and explore and do quests.
 
The Diablo series has never had meaningful player agency.

Which isn't to say that a lot of other RPGs do a good job of it, but Diablo doesn't even try.

Depending on who you talk to, they're kinda giving up on character building in their third installment, too.
 
Still haven't gotten back to ME3, and what was going on it is starting to slip my mind, but I don't know I've mostly just been playing LoL lately, and WoW when I just want to kill time leveling up some alt characters. I'm still making progress on Tales of the Abyss everyday on my commute though, 20 hours in now.

I really haven't played a single player game in a bit, I want to get back to them, but I'm not sure I will this weekend, since I'm thinking about getting my ears pierced again this Saturday for my birthday, and Sunday (my actual birthday) me and a friend are going to hang out and watch awful movies (Catwomen, Clash of the Titans, Green Lantern, and Abduction) for a bunch of the day (might see if he wants to see The Cabin in the Woods as a good movie interlude though).
 
You know what game gets called an RPG (either W or J) way more than it should?

Dark Souls. Game is a fucking adventure game that requires way too much physical dexterity to ever be considered any kind of RPG.

I love it to bits and it consumed much of my time last October, but Call of Duty 4, W@W, MW2, etc (played online at least)... have just as much customization/feature leveling up/require twitch reflexes as Dark Souls and they never get confused for RPGs.
 
[quote name='Halo05']Dark Souls. Game is a fucking adventure game that requires way too much physical dexterity to ever be considered any kind of RPG. [/QUOTE]

That would explain why I like it.
 
Yeah this conversation has already gotten dry. Really don't care for strict genre definitions, at all. Leave that up to the database organizers.
 
Nolan North to voice Link in next Zelda game.

Jennifer Hale will be Zelda.

The guy who played Saul Ty in the Battlestar Galactica remake will be, like, a tree or something.
 
[quote name='hankmecrankme']How to make any game better : Add good gameplay

How to make any game worse : Add turn-based combat[/QUOTE]

Fixed.

[quote name='ihadFG']How to make any game better: add dinosaurs[/QUOTE]

Fixed.

[quote name='CaptainJoel']How to make any game better: add boobs.[/QUOTE]

Uh... fine as is.

[quote name='ihadFG']how to make any game: add Nolan North[/QUOTE]

This, too.
 
[quote name='ihadFG']What if you had bears riding dinosaurs? I can't think of a better idea than that.[/QUOTE]

Only if it's this bear:

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[quote name='dothog']What's the thin line separating traditional action-adventure from the so-called action RPG? XP?

Morbo is feeling a little fuzzy headed right now when it comes to genre distinction.[/QUOTE]

ME3 is a shooter with some RPG elements thrown in...not enough to make it an action RPG.

Another game that people say is an RPG when it is not in any way is Zelda.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']Nolan North to voice Link in next Zelda game.

Jennifer Hale will be Zelda.

The guy who played Saul Ty in the Battlestar Galactica remake will be, like, a tree or something.[/QUOTE]
Sounds good to me.

I still won't play it though.
 
[quote name='distgfx']Youtube it is.[/QUOTE]
Yeah about that -- every kid with good footage of Journey has to commentate over it. I tried to look up my favorite parts of the game and it's just ruined by some autistic douche talking into a mic.

But yeah, Jonathan Blow has a tough act to beat.
 
[quote name='Halo05']You know what game gets called an RPG (either W or J) way more than it should?

Dark Souls. Game is a fucking adventure game that requires way too much physical dexterity to ever be considered any kind of RPG.

I love it to bits and it consumed much of my time last October, but Call of Duty 4, W@W, MW2, etc (played online at least)... have just as much customization/feature leveling up/require twitch reflexes as Dark Souls and they never get confused for RPGs.[/QUOTE]

That doesn't seem valid to me.
Unlocks != Leveling

And a lot of Dark Souls isn't twitch based. It's not Ninja Gaiden on mentor or whatever.
 
[quote name='corrosivefrost']That doesn't seem valid to me.
Unlocks != Leveling

And a lot of Dark Souls isn't twitch based. It's not Ninja Gaiden on mentor or whatever.[/QUOTE]

But you can level grind in CoD!
 
[quote name='whoknows']ME3 is a shooter with some RPG elements thrown in...not enough to make it an action RPG.
[/QUOTE]

That is true. The RPG elements gameplay wise are very short. But the amount of story, dialogue and choice are far beyond any shooter and put it any action RPG territory for me.

Zelda doesn't count as RPG to me as it lacks both the customization/leveling options (other than Zelda 2) and also isn't so story/dialogue driven. Though Skyward Sword was heavier on that than past games.

But this is just another example of why genre labels are useless. Too many games combine multiple genre elements which makes them tough to classify into any kind of specific genre.

For me when I hear RPG I'm more focused on the notion of exploration, dialogue and story as that's what attracts me to RPG type games. Other's focus on character creation and customization, or loot/inventory stuff etc. So it's hard to narrow down exactly what makes a game an RPG.

For me, my hobby is stories. I like engaging myself in stories and taking a break from reality. Movies and books kick the shit out of games on that front, but games like ME2&3 come close by sucking you into the story with the control over dialogue, having to make some decisions etc., without getting bogged down too much in stats, leveling, managing inventory and other stuff that sucks me out of a story and makes me want to just put on a movie or curl up with my Kindle.

Drawback is game stories are seldom as compelling as those in the best movies, tv shows or books. But there's no reason they can't be if they can get better writers working on them and combining top notch story telling with the interactiveness of games to create a unique storytelling experience.
 
Why is nobody talking about the ultimate RPGs, they have leveling, unlocks, and tons of character customization. Not to mention, each game is set in a totally unique world!
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[quote name='dmaul1114']But there's no reason they can't be if they can get better writers working on them and combining top notch story telling with the interactiveness of games to create a unique storytelling experience.[/QUOTE]
It's not so simple. "Get better writers" doesn't mean "get better story".

You've said yourself that you like to drop the difficulty down to "just get through the story". This implies a degree of separation between gameplay and story, which is downright poisonous to good storytelling. A lot of things that would make for better stories would likely have you complaining about complexity or unfairness.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Drawback is game stories are seldom as compelling as those in the best movies, tv shows or books.[/QUOTE]

Problem is, you're probably comparing most games against the best in each of those mediums, you have to remember that there is plenty of stuff like this (which I'm sure most could argue games surpass):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4tDbEuMxys

16Pregnant-s2p1.jpg


250px-Twilightbook.jpg
 
[quote name='icebeast']Problem is, you're probably comparing most games against the best in each of those mediums, you have to remember that there is plenty of stuff like this (which I'm sure most could argue games surpass):[/QUOTE]

Not at all. I'm comparing my favorite story-based games (like the ME series) to my favorite movies, books and shows.

There's of course dreck in every medium. I'm talking comparing cream of the crop story based games to cream of the crop movies and books.

With games development focus in more on gameplay and graphics since its an interactive medium. So story is a lesser concern. Great movies and books and shows are great because of their stories, and those are great as it was the main focus of the people creating them.

For gaming to really move forward as a story telling medium, they have to start putting more emphasis on story, hiring top writers to pen the stories and dialogue etc.

And part of it is just my bias. I'm a movie buff and a voracious reader, but a pretty casual gamer so my views are going to be skewed by that. This will probably be the last generation I game. I've gamed for over 25 years, but I just don't love it anymore. It's a nice diversion from other hobbies, but not something I often feel like setting aside big blocks of time for.

With getting pretty serious into running and fitness since the start of the year, I don't have many big blocks of free time anymore anyway as that, work and social stuff eats up most of my evening/weekend time these days. Hard enough to find 2 hours to watch a movie, much less time to get through a long game--hence why it took me so long to finish ME3, despite having been super excited for it.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']It's not so simple. "Get better writers" doesn't mean "get better story".

You've said yourself that you like to drop the difficulty down to "just get through the story". This implies a degree of separation between gameplay and story, which is downright poisonous to good storytelling. A lot of things that would make for better stories would likely have you complaining about complexity or unfairness.[/QUOTE]

I do agree with that. Gameplay is always something that gets in the way of storytelling, and is why I prefer movies and books. I'd rather just sit back and enjoy a story than have to press buttons, get pissed off over hard battles etc. And that's another reason why I'm done with gaming after this generation. It's just eating up hobby time I could be spending on things that I completely enjoy, with things that I partly enjoy and at times get pissed off at. :D

That said, lowering the difficulty isn't skipping the gameplay. It's just taking out the frustration of having to redo battles, spend a lot of time on micromanaging stats and inventory/equipment etc. that take me out of the story. But it's not any less gameplay really, just less frustration.
 
Repeating myself: It's not so simple. "Get better writers" doesn't mean "get better story".

You've said yourself that you like to drop the difficulty down to "just get through the story". This implies a degree of separation between gameplay and story, which is downright poisonous to good storytelling. A lot of things that would make for better stories would likely have you complaining about complexity or unfairness.
 
See post above where I responded to that one.

In short, I mostly agree and that's why I won't by another console. I've come to terms with the fact that I don't enjoy gaming enough relative to movies and books to be spending much of my limited free time on them. As you note, for me the gameplay will always take away from the story telling.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']There's of course dreck in every medium. I'm talking comparing "cream of the crop" story based games to cream of the crop movies and books.[/QUOTE]

But that is going to be a 100% personal view of the subject, since what you consider "cream of the crop" isn't going to be the same as someone else, for instance I'm sure Uriazen isn't going to consider ME3 the pinnacle of games. And even the things you consider "dreck" of a medium are sometimes loved by a bunch of people, I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard to find someone who would list the New York Times Best Selling Twilight series as some of their favorite books of all time.

And even beyond that how do you compare a game without a story (or where story isn't the focus) to those other mediums. Is every book better than League of Legends or any fighting game because they are about competitive gameplay and the story is just thrown in for fun?
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']That said, lowering the difficulty isn't skipping the gameplay. It's just taking out the frustration of having to redo battles, spend a lot of time on micromanaging stats and inventory/equipment etc. that take me out of the story. But it's not any less gameplay really, just less frustration.[/QUOTE]
I believe the point has missed you.

In an easy game, you feel no threat. No threat, no tension, no stakes, none of those things that are essential for making readers/viewers/players actually give a fuck about what is happening.

I wasn't talking about "skipping the gameplay". I was talking about segregating THIS IS STORY TIME from THIS IS GAMEPLAY TIME, and how harmful that is to the latter. That is something that involves the entire development team, not just "get better writers". Gameplay should feed the story and the story should give meaning to the gameplay, as fucking impossible as that may seem sometimes.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']
I wasn't talking about "skipping the gameplay". I was talking about segregating THIS IS STORY TIME from THIS IS GAMEPLAY TIME, and how harmful that is to the latter. That is something that involves the entire development team, not just "get better writers". Gameplay should feed the story and the story should give meaning to the gameplay, as fucking impossible as that may seem sometimes.[/QUOTE]
Should I be able to think of a game that does that?


And I'm with Dmaul on that I like story in games. My favorite games are story driven ones.
 
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