JESUS is Overrated

[quote name='Kayden']However, no matter how hard humanity looks, they can't find an answer for the begining or the end. Since its a well known fact people fear the unknown, they kept those God and Jesus fellas around to keep the ignorant masses content and in check.

Perhaps, but does that invalidate the potential of a God? There are many different conceptions of God, not all are the classic Christian one. There are many shades of reality too.

Well, when you hear about a new disease on the radio, and people start dying near you... I'd hope you'd put two and two together and make smores... Err... Find the correlation. While, no, it doesn't disprove God, it doesn't really provide much backing for him.

Ah, here is the crux of it. I don't concede that God is a human conception. I postulate that we are His. We are a fevere dream. Not so much as *poof* "Welcome to the Universe!" but more as a guiding hand that shaped evolution. Why do science and religion have to be mutually exclusive?

Why are fire and water mutually exclusive? No matter what way they are combined or try to interact, they inevitably destroy each other.
Its like why you don't sleep with your boss... or why you shouldn't Its a conflict of interest. Most religeous scientists are discredited on both sides of the fence.

It's just so hard to take religion seriously when most of what they have fought so fervorently for has changed. Jesus black? Women as equals? The world round? OUTER SPACE?! One look at the Crusades, Inquisition, and Witch Trials should show you religion is just a tool of those seeking power. I really liked the "you don't agree with us, so to 'save your soul' (read- shut you up) we'll just kill you" attitude.

You can't eliminate all the good of something because people are fallible. We've always made mistakes. Every culture in the world thinks that they live in that one critical moment, when the nature of, well, Nature itself is revealed to them. Nobody has yet. None of that invalidates God.

Again, it doesn't do much for his reputation, either. "As it is on Earth, so too, shall it be in Heaven" ring a bell? Doesn't that mean if the Church says its true I support them? So.... taken at face value, God supports the rape and enslavement of untold billions.

You're using the phrase one church uses to retain corporeal power to, and to prove their divine authority to invalidate the very power that they wield while disproving their divine link. I don't believe that everything the pope says God holds true. I don't follow "Dogma's Logic"

You may not, but whoever takes the Bible strictly as-is, should. At not one point have I really tried to single you out as the focus of my ramblings. I'm using things I find to be applicable to most people. Is the Catholic church the only one that uses the Bible? Really, I don't pay that much attention... I know they stole most of thier material from the Jews... but I don't know if anyone else adopted the Bible... Reguardless, Catholicism/Christianity are the most widely spread (infecting :p) religions, both of which, I think, have that manta. So seeing how that accounts for a few hundred million people.... I think my point is still quite applicable.


We found out God isn't sitting on a cloud. This planet isn't the center of the universe, infact, we're in the ass-end, backwater part of our solar system. The planet is round and circles around the sun, not vice versa and flat. The ideals they would kill people for disbelieving have not withstood the test of time... I'm just wondering when the rest will give way.

I don't particularly agree with the "ass-end" part, but I concede your point. But just because you know that science will be overturned in the future does not mean that you can't believe in something greater. That you can't devote your life to good works.

Its been a while since I looked at a map of the galaxy (which is what I ment, sorry), but were pretty far out on one of the spiral arms... Which is good, because the super condensed area of stars would give us unbearable radiation... not to meantion the high probablity of colliding with another solar system.

Perhaps more proof of God. Would he create us near those celestial dangers you so accurately describe?

Maybe the only reason we wound up here is because all live elsewhere was destroyed. I think thats where a lot of the 'we're so great' mentality comes from. We (humans) are so full of ourselves simply for living. Maybe life had taken root elsewhere, but it was unfortunately wiped out due to a meteor, a toxic atmosphere, solar radiation, excessive heat, too little light, or the any of the other infinite permutations that would equal death. Maybe its not "this place is here for us" but more like "this is onf of the few places we haven't been Pwn3d!!!11!" Sure, the conditions may have been made perfect for us, but maybe we became perfect for the conditions.


Does that jive with your difficulties believeing in God?

You have your beliefs and I really don't want to waste time trying to 'prove' you wrong seeing how its A) impossible and B) I'm tired and lazy. Don't worry, I'm not going to rape your wife and burn you at the stake... :whistle2:#

No, but I might. :twisted:

:shock:![/quote]

who are you in the quotes..??
 
[quote name='sblymnlcrymnl']Ok, what the hell is going on with this every changing quoting method?[/quote]

I dunno I just jumped in on this to get my post count up :rofl:
 
What would be so bad about doing it this way?

[quote name='Kayden'][quote name='fanskad'][quote name='Kayden'][quote name='fanskad'][quote name='Kayden']However, no matter how hard humanity looks, they can't find an answer for the begining or the end. Since its a well known fact people fear the unknown, they kept those God and Jesus fellas around to keep the ignorant masses content and in check.[/quote]

Perhaps, but does that invalidate the potential of a God? There are many different conceptions of God, not all are the classic Christian one. There are many shades of reality too.[/quote]

Well, when you hear about a new disease on the radio, and people start dying near you... I'd hope you'd put two and two together and make smores... Err... Find the correlation. While, no, it doesn't disprove God, it doesn't really provide much backing for him.[/quote]

Ah, here is the crux of it. I don't concede that God is a human conception. I postulate that we are His. We are a fevere dream. Not so much as *poof* "Welcome to the Universe!" but more as a guiding hand that shaped evolution. Why do science and religion have to be mutually exclusive?[/quote]

Why are fire and water mutually exclusive? No matter what way they are combined or try to interact, they inevitably destroy each other.
Its like why you don't sleep with your boss... or why you shouldn't Its a conflict of interest. Most religeous scientists are discredited on both sides of the fence.[/quote]

[quote name='Kayden'][quote name='fanskad'][quote name='Kayden'][quote name='fanskad'][quote name='Kayden']

It's just so hard to take religion seriously when most of what they have fought so fervorently for has changed. Jesus black? Women as equals? The world round? OUTER SPACE?! One look at the Crusades, Inquisition, and Witch Trials should show you religion is just a tool of those seeking power. I really liked the "you don't agree with us, so to 'save your soul' (read- shut you up) we'll just kill you" attitude.[/quote]

You can't eliminate all the good of something because people are fallible. We've always made mistakes. Every culture in the world thinks that they live in that one critical moment, when the nature of, well, Nature itself is revealed to them. Nobody has yet. None of that invalidates God.[/quote]

Again, it doesn't do much for his reputation, either. "As it is on Earth, so too, shall it be in Heaven" ring a bell? Doesn't that mean if the Church says its true I support them? So.... taken at face value, God supports the rape and enslavement of untold billions.[/quote]

You're using the phrase one church uses to retain corporeal power to, and to prove their divine authority to invalidate the very power that they wield while disproving their divine link. I don't believe that everything the pope says God holds true. I don't follow "Dogma's Logic"[/quote]

You may not, but whoever takes the Bible strictly as-is, should. At not one point have I really tried to single you out as the focus of my ramblings. I'm using things I find to be applicable to most people. Is the Catholic church the only one that uses the Bible? Really, I don't pay that much attention... I know they stole most of thier material from the Jews... but I don't know if anyone else adopted the Bible... Reguardless, Catholicism/Christianity are the most widely spread (infecting :p) religions, both of which, I think, have that manta. So seeing how that accounts for a few hundred million people.... I think my point is still quite applicable.[/quote]

[quote name='Kayden'][quote name='fanskad'][quote name='Kayden'][quote name='fanskad'][quote name='Kayden']

We found out God isn't sitting on a cloud. This planet isn't the center of the universe, infact, we're in the ass-end, backwater part of our solar system. The planet is round and circles around the sun, not vice versa and flat. The ideals they would kill people for disbelieving have not withstood the test of time... I'm just wondering when the rest will give way.[/quote]

I don't particularly agree with the "ass-end" part, but I concede your point. But just because you know that science will be overturned in the future does not mean that you can't believe in something greater. That you can't devote your life to good works.[/quote]

Its been a while since I looked at a map of the galaxy (which is what I ment, sorry), but were pretty far out on one of the spiral arms... Which is good, because the super condensed area of stars would give us unbearable radiation... not to meantion the high probablity of colliding with another solar system.[/quote]

Perhaps more proof of God. Would he create us near those celestial dangers you so accurately describe?[/quote]

Maybe the only reason we wound up here is because all live elsewhere was destroyed. I think thats where a lot of the 'we're so great' mentality comes from. We (humans) are so full of ourselves simply for living. Maybe life had taken root elsewhere, but it was unfortunately wiped out due to a meteor, a toxic atmosphere, solar radiation, excessive heat, too little light, or the any of the other infinite permutations that would equal death. Maybe its not "this place is here for us" but more like "this is onf of the few places we haven't been Pwn3d!!!11!" Sure, the conditions may have been made perfect for us, but maybe we became perfect for the conditions.[/quote]

[quote name='Kayden'][quote name='fanskad'][quote name='Kayden'][quote name='fanskad']

Does that jive with your difficulties believeing in God?[/quote]

You have your beliefs and I really don't want to waste time trying to 'prove' you wrong seeing how its A) impossible and B) I'm tired and lazy. Don't worry, I'm not going to rape your wife and burn you at the stake... :whistle2:#[/quote]

No, but I might. :twisted:[/quote]

:shock:![/quote]
 
[quote name='evilmax17']I believe that human beings have the capacity to do good things, and it's not the influence of some mystical being doing it.[/quote]

Thats all fine and dandy, but they also have the capacity to do bad things and I'm willing to wager that on the whole they choose the bad things over the good things. Even if its not true for everyone, it is certainly my personal tendency.

So if the net effect of one's existence is bad then what is one to do? Certainly seems like mankind is fucked and needs some help.

So maybe you think that they need it, but they are just fucked and there is no way out. Maybe you think that there is no "mystical" or "supernatural". Well science hints pretty strongly that there is something big organizing things (everything in nature follows surprisingly strict rules) and logic tells you that science cannot describe everything (see Godel's incompleteness theorem). In other words, as a matter of logic science cannot possibly explain everything and the precedent seems to be that the thing that it cannot explain is what controls all of the natural world. So it is hard to deny that there is some kind of "supernatural being" which controls the universe.

Ok. Maybe you say "So what? Even if there is a supernatural being, it doesn't change the fact that we are fucked." Well, look at the Jews. If there has ever been a people that were fucked it is the Jews. Peoples have been trying to exterminate the Jews for thousands of thousands of years. It is pretty damn amazing that they haven't been able to. Even if you aren't amazed, I think it is at least worth looking into.

After looking into it you will find that the Jews claim that the reason they have survived is because they are "the people of god". In fact, they have a whole book describing the history of it. If you look into it then you will find that this book is one of the most the most accurate historical documents in existence. It pretty much checks out with all the facts and as time goes on the evidence in favor of its veracity just seems to keep mounting.

If you do your homework then you will be quite impressed with this book and, given it's credibility, any reasonable person would believe its claims.

What does it claim?
1. Mankind is fucked (we already knew this though)
2. There is a supernatural being (we knew this too)
3. This supernatural being controls the universe (a couple thousand years ago this required some faith, but with the development of science we now know this)
4. This supernatural being cares about people (we already knew that it cared about the Jews, but the book claims that it cares about all people)
5. This supernatural being has a way out so we can get unfucked.

1,2, and 3 are just plain facts.
4 is part fact part faith, but given the credibility of this book, why not believe it?
5 calls the way out "Messiah". You just have to trust the book on #5, although it does have some amazing prophecies backing it up.

I think that any reasonable person would believe these claims. Of course I cannot prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt any more than I can prove that what you touch, smell, taste, and see isn't a dream. So if you really want to be stubborn you can insist that these claims aren't true, just like you can insist that your life is a dream and the whole world is imaginary.

However, you may have noticed that there is a loophole that will let you deny the whole thing. The loophole is if you think that you are an exception to the rule. In other words, if you think that you can do only good things and not bad things (unlike the rest of humanity). If you have enough hubris to believe this then you can reasonably deny the 5 claims above. On the other hand, if you remain humble then you cannot deny them.

If you never considered it this way before then I encourage you to look into it and find out the truth. Don't let some pro-life, abortion hating rednecks derail you with their lies/misunderstandings.

Any criticisms?
 
[quote name='sblymnlcrymnl']What would be so bad about doing it this way?:

[quote name='Kayden'][quote name='fanskad'][quote name='Kayden'][quote name='fanskad'][quote name='Kayden']However, no matter how hard humanity looks, they can't find an answer for the begining or the end. Since its a well known fact people fear the unknown, they kept those God and Jesus fellas around to keep the ignorant masses content and in check.[/quote]

Perhaps, but does that invalidate the potential of a God? There are many different conceptions of God, not all are the classic Christian one. There are many shades of reality too.[/quote]

Well, when you hear about a new disease on the radio, and people start dying near you... I'd hope you'd put two and two together and make smores... Err... Find the correlation. While, no, it doesn't disprove God, it doesn't really provide much backing for him.[/quote]

Ah, here is the crux of it. I don't concede that God is a human conception. I postulate that we are His. We are a fevere dream. Not so much as *poof* "Welcome to the Universe!" but more as a guiding hand that shaped evolution. Why do science and religion have to be mutually exclusive?[/quote]

Why are fire and water mutually exclusive? No matter what way they are combined or try to interact, they inevitably destroy each other.
Its like why you don't sleep with your boss... or why you shouldn't Its a conflict of interest. Most religeous scientists are discredited on both sides of the fence.[/quote]

[quote name='Kayden'][quote name='fanskad'][quote name='Kayden'][quote name='fanskad'][quote name='Kayden']

It's just so hard to take religion seriously when most of what they have fought so fervorently for has changed. Jesus black? Women as equals? The world round? OUTER SPACE?! One look at the Crusades, Inquisition, and Witch Trials should show you religion is just a tool of those seeking power. I really liked the "you don't agree with us, so to 'save your soul' (read- shut you up) we'll just kill you" attitude.[/quote]

You can't eliminate all the good of something because people are fallible. We've always made mistakes. Every culture in the world thinks that they live in that one critical moment, when the nature of, well, Nature itself is revealed to them. Nobody has yet. None of that invalidates God.[/quote]

Again, it doesn't do much for his reputation, either. "As it is on Earth, so too, shall it be in Heaven" ring a bell? Doesn't that mean if the Church says its true I support them? So.... taken at face value, God supports the rape and enslavement of untold billions.[/quote]

You're using the phrase one church uses to retain corporeal power to, and to prove their divine authority to invalidate the very power that they wield while disproving their divine link. I don't believe that everything the pope says God holds true. I don't follow "Dogma's Logic"[/quote]

You may not, but whoever takes the Bible strictly as-is, should. At not one point have I really tried to single you out as the focus of my ramblings. I'm using things I find to be applicable to most people. Is the Catholic church the only one that uses the Bible? Really, I don't pay that much attention... I know they stole most of thier material from the Jews... but I don't know if anyone else adopted the Bible... Reguardless, Catholicism/Christianity are the most widely spread (infecting :p) religions, both of which, I think, have that manta. So seeing how that accounts for a few hundred million people.... I think my point is still quite applicable.[/quote]

[quote name='Kayden'][quote name='fanskad'][quote name='Kayden'][quote name='fanskad'][quote name='Kayden']

We found out God isn't sitting on a cloud. This planet isn't the center of the universe, infact, we're in the ass-end, backwater part of our solar system. The planet is round and circles around the sun, not vice versa and flat. The ideals they would kill people for disbelieving have not withstood the test of time... I'm just wondering when the rest will give way.[/quote]

I don't particularly agree with the "ass-end" part, but I concede your point. But just because you know that science will be overturned in the future does not mean that you can't believe in something greater. That you can't devote your life to good works.[/quote]

Its been a while since I looked at a map of the galaxy (which is what I ment, sorry), but were pretty far out on one of the spiral arms... Which is good, because the super condensed area of stars would give us unbearable radiation... not to meantion the high probablity of colliding with another solar system.[/quote]

Perhaps more proof of God. Would he create us near those celestial dangers you so accurately describe?[/quote]

Maybe the only reason we wound up here is because all live elsewhere was destroyed. I think thats where a lot of the 'we're so great' mentality comes from. We (humans) are so full of ourselves simply for living. Maybe life had taken root elsewhere, but it was unfortunately wiped out due to a meteor, a toxic atmosphere, solar radiation, excessive heat, too little light, or the any of the other infinite permutations that would equal death. Maybe its not "this place is here for us" but more like "this is onf of the few places we haven't been Pwn3d!!!11!" Sure, the conditions may have been made perfect for us, but maybe we became perfect for the conditions.[/quote]

[quote name='Kayden'][quote name='fanskad'][quote name='Kayden'][quote name='fanskad']

Does that jive with your difficulties believeing in God?[/quote]

You have your beliefs and I really don't want to waste time trying to 'prove' you wrong seeing how its A) impossible and B) I'm tired and lazy. Don't worry, I'm not going to rape your wife and burn you at the stake... :whistle2:#[/quote]

No, but I might. :twisted:[/quote]

:shock:![/quote][/quote]
lol
 
[quote name='The Truth']Dude, I went to a school full of people whose lives are fully devoted to Jesus Christ. They walked around campus like zombies who lived in a perfect world, immune to what was really going on around them.
But at the same time, when you find God, you find peace, and nothing else matters. I can respect that and I wish I could do it.[/quote]

I agree with this. What most people don't realize is that when Christianity started it was not organized at all and the early apostles tried to keep some kind of order in the churches. Christianity started as a movement, that after Jesus death (murder), turned into a community (the orgins of water baptism are traced to this point in Christian history). Anyways, there were atleast four very distinct Jewish sects (not sex, lol). The zealots who were not opposed bring about the restoration of the Jewish people by anything. The disciples Judas and Simon were apparently appart of this sect. The Pharisees who were teachers of the Torah and hated Hellenistic culture, but did not believe in violent practices (Jesus fits here). The sadducees who were a corupted "priest" class that lived large because they had deep ties with the Roman leaders/Procuraters. Lastly, the Essenses (sp?). Their answer to Hellenism was to just leave. They wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls. These guys were really messed up. For example, they would not "potty" on the sabbath and would hold it until the next day (night actually as they used a lunar calander). I think this is where Christianity is stuck today. Sorry for all the history, but this post seems to be with people that are atleast somewhat intellectual and not just being judgemental or flamming for no reason.
 
[quote name='sblymnlcrymnl']Ok, what the hell is going on with this every changing quoting method?[/quote]

To me it looks like a new take on the JSweeney.
 
guys, i think we are all forgetting that the king of the cosmos runs things in this universe...

just look at those purple pants!!
i wouldnt mess with anybody in those pants...

and we also know that stars and such are created by a pill shaped head and his mighty ball of stuff, hence, most other stuff is probably created in a similar fashion.

i call this belief katamarity.

im gonna write a book about it, and maybe in a few years when some people read it they will start believing it and following my beliefs.

also, obviously everything was created by something, but who the hell knows what??? when we figure it out ill be happy, but im not gonna go making something up to explain the unexplainable.

and i recall someone mentioning david blaine... we better call in the super best friends!!!


this whole post is a pointless rant because im bored, just ignore it
 
[quote name='chunk'][quote name='evilmax17']I believe that human beings have the capacity to do good things, and it's not the influence of some mystical being doing it.[/quote]

Thats all fine and dandy, but they also have the capacity to do bad things and I'm willing to wager that on the whole they choose the bad things over the good things. Even if its not true for everyone, it is certainly my personal tendency.

So if the net effect of one's existence is bad then what is one to do? Certainly seems like mankind is shaq-fued and needs some help.

So maybe you think that they need it, but they are just shaq-fued and there is no way out. Maybe you think that there is no "mystical" or "supernatural". Well science hints pretty strongly that there is something big organizing things (everything in nature follows surprisingly strict rules) and logic tells you that science cannot describe everything (see Godel's incompleteness theorem). In other words, as a matter of logic science cannot possibly explain everything and the precedent seems to be that the thing that it cannot explain is what controls all of the natural world. So it is hard to deny that there is some kind of "supernatural being" which controls the universe.

Ok. Maybe you say "So what? Even if there is a supernatural being, it doesn't change the fact that we are shaq-fued." Well, look at the Jews. If there has ever been a people that were shaq-fued it is the Jews. Peoples have been trying to exterminate the Jews for thousands of thousands of years. It is pretty damn amazing that they haven't been able to. Even if you aren't amazed, I think it is at least worth looking into.

After looking into it you will find that the Jews claim that the reason they have survived is because they are "the people of god". In fact, they have a whole book describing the history of it. If you look into it then you will find that this book is one of the most the most accurate historical documents in existence. It pretty much checks out with all the facts and as time goes on the evidence in favor of its veracity just seems to keep mounting.

If you do your homework then you will be quite impressed with this book and, given it's credibility, any reasonable person would believe its claims.

What does it claim?
1. Mankind is shaq-fued (we already knew this though)
2. There is a supernatural being (we knew this too)
3. This supernatural being controls the universe (a couple thousand years ago this required some faith, but with the development of science we now know this)
4. This supernatural being cares about people (we already knew that it cared about the Jews, but the book claims that it cares about all people)
5. This supernatural being has a way out so we can get unfucked.

1,2, and 3 are just plain facts.
4 is part fact part faith, but given the credibility of this book, why not believe it?
5 calls the way out "Messiah". You just have to trust the book on #5, although it does have some amazing prophecies backing it up.

I think that any reasonable person would believe these claims. Of course I cannot prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt any more than I can prove that what you touch, smell, taste, and see isn't a dream. So if you really want to be stubborn you can insist that these claims aren't true, just like you can insist that your life is a dream and the whole world is imaginary.

However, you may have noticed that there is a loophole that will let you deny the whole thing. The loophole is if you think that you are an exception to the rule. In other words, if you think that you can do only good things and not bad things (unlike the rest of humanity). If you have enough hubris to believe this then you can reasonably deny the 5 claims above. On the other hand, if you remain humble then you cannot deny them.

If you never considered it this way before then I encourage you to look into it and find out the truth. Don't let some pro-life, abortion hating rednecks derail you with their lies/misunderstandings.

Any criticisms?[/quote]

Besides that your "facts" are hardly that, I would suggest not attributing your own inadequacies to others. ;)
 
[quote name='chunk'][quote name='evilmax17']I believe that human beings have the capacity to do good things, and it's not the influence of some mystical being doing it.[/quote]

Thats all fine and dandy, but they also have the capacity to do bad things and I'm willing to wager that on the whole they choose the bad things over the good things. Even if its not true for everyone, it is certainly my personal tendency.

So if the net effect of one's existence is bad then what is one to do? Certainly seems like mankind is shaq-fued and needs some help.

So maybe you think that they need it, but they are just shaq-fued and there is no way out. Maybe you think that there is no "mystical" or "supernatural". Well science hints pretty strongly that there is something big organizing things (everything in nature follows surprisingly strict rules) and logic tells you that science cannot describe everything (see Godel's incompleteness theorem). In other words, as a matter of logic science cannot possibly explain everything and the precedent seems to be that the thing that it cannot explain is what controls all of the natural world. So it is hard to deny that there is some kind of "supernatural being" which controls the universe.

Ok. Maybe you say "So what? Even if there is a supernatural being, it doesn't change the fact that we are shaq-fued." Well, look at the Jews. If there has ever been a people that were shaq-fued it is the Jews. Peoples have been trying to exterminate the Jews for thousands of thousands of years. It is pretty damn amazing that they haven't been able to. Even if you aren't amazed, I think it is at least worth looking into.

After looking into it you will find that the Jews claim that the reason they have survived is because they are "the people of god". In fact, they have a whole book describing the history of it. If you look into it then you will find that this book is one of the most the most accurate historical documents in existence. It pretty much checks out with all the facts and as time goes on the evidence in favor of its veracity just seems to keep mounting.

If you do your homework then you will be quite impressed with this book and, given it's credibility, any reasonable person would believe its claims.

What does it claim?
1. Mankind is shaq-fued (we already knew this though)
2. There is a supernatural being (we knew this too)
3. This supernatural being controls the universe (a couple thousand years ago this required some faith, but with the development of science we now know this)
4. This supernatural being cares about people (we already knew that it cared about the Jews, but the book claims that it cares about all people)
5. This supernatural being has a way out so we can get unfucked.

1,2, and 3 are just plain facts.
4 is part fact part faith, but given the credibility of this book, why not believe it?
5 calls the way out "Messiah". You just have to trust the book on #5, although it does have some amazing prophecies backing it up.

I think that any reasonable person would believe these claims. Of course I cannot prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt any more than I can prove that what you touch, smell, taste, and see isn't a dream. So if you really want to be stubborn you can insist that these claims aren't true, just like you can insist that your life is a dream and the whole world is imaginary.

However, you may have noticed that there is a loophole that will let you deny the whole thing. The loophole is if you think that you are an exception to the rule. In other words, if you think that you can do only good things and not bad things (unlike the rest of humanity). If you have enough hubris to believe this then you can reasonably deny the 5 claims above. On the other hand, if you remain humble then you cannot deny them.

If you never considered it this way before then I encourage you to look into it and find out the truth. Don't let some pro-life, abortion hating rednecks derail you with their lies/misunderstandings.

Any criticisms?[/quote]


me thinks you killed the investigation of the CAG conspiracy theory
 
[quote name='Mr.Answer'][quote name='sblymnlcrymnl']What would be so bad about doing it this way?:

[quote name='Kayden'][quote name='fanskad'][quote name='Kayden'][quote name='fanskad'][quote name='Kayden']However, no matter how hard humanity looks, they can't find an answer for the begining or the end. Since its a well known fact people fear the unknown, they kept those God and Jesus fellas around to keep the ignorant masses content and in check.[/quote]

Perhaps, but does that invalidate the potential of a God? There are many different conceptions of God, not all are the classic Christian one. There are many shades of reality too.[/quote]

Well, when you hear about a new disease on the radio, and people start dying near you... I'd hope you'd put two and two together and make smores... Err... Find the correlation. While, no, it doesn't disprove God, it doesn't really provide much backing for him.[/quote]

Ah, here is the crux of it. I don't concede that God is a human conception. I postulate that we are His. We are a fevere dream. Not so much as *poof* "Welcome to the Universe!" but more as a guiding hand that shaped evolution. Why do science and religion have to be mutually exclusive?[/quote]

Why are fire and water mutually exclusive? No matter what way they are combined or try to interact, they inevitably destroy each other.
Its like why you don't sleep with your boss... or why you shouldn't Its a conflict of interest. Most religeous scientists are discredited on both sides of the fence.[/quote]

[quote name='Kayden'][quote name='fanskad'][quote name='Kayden'][quote name='fanskad'][quote name='Kayden']

It's just so hard to take religion seriously when most of what they have fought so fervorently for has changed. Jesus black? Women as equals? The world round? OUTER SPACE?! One look at the Crusades, Inquisition, and Witch Trials should show you religion is just a tool of those seeking power. I really liked the "you don't agree with us, so to 'save your soul' (read- shut you up) we'll just kill you" attitude.[/quote]

You can't eliminate all the good of something because people are fallible. We've always made mistakes. Every culture in the world thinks that they live in that one critical moment, when the nature of, well, Nature itself is revealed to them. Nobody has yet. None of that invalidates God.[/quote]

Again, it doesn't do much for his reputation, either. "As it is on Earth, so too, shall it be in Heaven" ring a bell? Doesn't that mean if the Church says its true I support them? So.... taken at face value, God supports the rape and enslavement of untold billions.[/quote]

You're using the phrase one church uses to retain corporeal power to, and to prove their divine authority to invalidate the very power that they wield while disproving their divine link. I don't believe that everything the pope says God holds true. I don't follow "Dogma's Logic"[/quote]

You may not, but whoever takes the Bible strictly as-is, should. At not one point have I really tried to single you out as the focus of my ramblings. I'm using things I find to be applicable to most people. Is the Catholic church the only one that uses the Bible? Really, I don't pay that much attention... I know they stole most of thier material from the Jews... but I don't know if anyone else adopted the Bible... Reguardless, Catholicism/Christianity are the most widely spread (infecting :p) religions, both of which, I think, have that manta. So seeing how that accounts for a few hundred million people.... I think my point is still quite applicable.[/quote]

[quote name='Kayden'][quote name='fanskad'][quote name='Kayden'][quote name='fanskad'][quote name='Kayden']

We found out God isn't sitting on a cloud. This planet isn't the center of the universe, infact, we're in the ass-end, backwater part of our solar system. The planet is round and circles around the sun, not vice versa and flat. The ideals they would kill people for disbelieving have not withstood the test of time... I'm just wondering when the rest will give way.[/quote]

I don't particularly agree with the "ass-end" part, but I concede your point. But just because you know that science will be overturned in the future does not mean that you can't believe in something greater. That you can't devote your life to good works.[/quote]

Its been a while since I looked at a map of the galaxy (which is what I ment, sorry), but were pretty far out on one of the spiral arms... Which is good, because the super condensed area of stars would give us unbearable radiation... not to meantion the high probablity of colliding with another solar system.[/quote]

Perhaps more proof of God. Would he create us near those celestial dangers you so accurately describe?[/quote]

Maybe the only reason we wound up here is because all live elsewhere was destroyed. I think thats where a lot of the 'we're so great' mentality comes from. We (humans) are so full of ourselves simply for living. Maybe life had taken root elsewhere, but it was unfortunately wiped out due to a meteor, a toxic atmosphere, solar radiation, excessive heat, too little light, or the any of the other infinite permutations that would equal death. Maybe its not "this place is here for us" but more like "this is onf of the few places we haven't been Pwn3d!!!11!" Sure, the conditions may have been made perfect for us, but maybe we became perfect for the conditions.[/quote]

[quote name='Kayden'][quote name='fanskad'][quote name='Kayden'][quote name='fanskad']

Does that jive with your difficulties believeing in God?[/quote]

You have your beliefs and I really don't want to waste time trying to 'prove' you wrong seeing how its A) impossible and B) I'm tired and lazy. Don't worry, I'm not going to rape your wife and burn you at the stake... :whistle2:#[/quote]

No, but I might. :twisted:[/quote]

:shock:![/quote][/quote]
lol[/quote]

Is it funny because I took the time to "fix" it, or for some other reason?
 
[quote name='chunk']3. This supernatural being controls the universe (a couple thousand years ago this required some faith, but with the development of science we now know this)[/quote]

Interesting. I do believe that that is the first time I have ever seen someone argue that modern science actually proves the existence of god (or a similar being). That's just...interesting.
 
[quote name='"rockhero"'][quote name='rallen'] Is it really THAT tough to accept the possibility that we might just be the product of chance?[/quote]

Sure, I've considered that. But then I traveled around this world, and spent a few more years on it, and thought, "this REALLY can't be chance."

But to each their own....
 
[quote name='sblymnlcrymnl']
When you put it like that, I can agree with you for the most part. Maybe I just believe that people shouldn't need a "roadmap" to be good.[/quote]

Why? Is anything in life that easy? Are doctors born knowing how to heal people? No. They need to study hard.

Don't you agree that learning can help one better one's self? Then why sell yourself short on the most important question.

If you cannot decide what is "good" (or worth doing) then there is no point to doing anything. If there was ever something worth learning then "how to do good" is it.

Or maybe you think that there is nothing to learn? Well I think it is a good rule of thumb to say that there is always someone that knows more than you. That is the person to learn from.

[quote name='Kayden']Most religeous scientists are discredited on both sides of the fence.[/quote]

lol....yeah Isaac Newton was such a quack! :roll:
 
[quote name='javeryh']Can't you just follow your religion and go about your everyday life just trying to be better at whatever you think you were missing?[/quote]

not really, lol. John 13:15(or something)

Greater love has no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.

That means giving up everything your life is to follow the one God has for you. Not just dying for someone(though it means both).
 
[quote name='chunk'][quote name='sblymnlcrymnl']
When you put it like that, I can agree with you for the most part. Maybe I just believe that people shouldn't need a "roadmap" to be good.[/quote]

Why? Is anything in life that easy? Are doctors born knowing how to heal people? No. They need to study hard.

Don't you agree that learning can help one better one's self? Then why sell yourself short on the most important question.

If you cannot decide what is "good" (or worth doing) then there is no point to doing anything. If there was ever something worth learning then "how to do good" is it.

Or maybe you think that there is nothing to learn? Well I think it is a good rule of thumb to say that there is always someone that knows more than you. That is the person to learn from.

[quote name='Kayden']Most religeous scientists are discredited on both sides of the fence.[/quote]

lol....yeah Isaac Newton was such a quack! :roll:[/quote]

Well that's the thing. I don't need someone to tell me what is good or bad, I already know. I also believe that most people have an idea of right and wrong from a very young age. I don't know about you but I didn't need my parents/teachers/priest to tell me that I shouldn't kill people.
 
Ah, here is the crux of it. I don't concede that God is a human conception. I postulate that we are His. We are a fevere dream. Not so much as *poof* "Welcome to the Universe!" but more as a guiding hand that shaped evolution. Why do science and religion have to be mutually exclusive?

Why are fire and water mutually exclusive? No matter what way they are combined or try to interact, they inevitably destroy each other.
Its like why you don't sleep with your boss... or why you shouldn't Its a conflict of interest. Most religeous scientists are discredited on both sides of the fence.

Some of the greatest scientists have been highly religious people. Einstein, Copernicus, even, I believe, Newton. A common misconception is that science invalidates belief. Why would God give us the faculty for rational questioning thought if he didn't expect us to use it? He created this incredible universe (not the store) and he fully expects us to explore it.

You're using the phrase one church uses to retain corporeal power to, and to prove their divine authority to invalidate the very power that they wield while disproving their divine link. I don't believe that everything the pope says God holds true. I don't follow "Dogma's Logic"

You may not, but whoever takes the Bible strictly as-is, should. At not one point have I really tried to single you out as the focus of my ramblings. I'm using things I find to be applicable to most people. Is the Catholic church the only one that uses the Bible? Really, I don't pay that much attention... I know they stole most of thier material from the Jews... but I don't know if anyone else adopted the Bible... Reguardless, Catholicism/Christianity are the most widely spread (infecting :p) religions, both of which, I think, have that manta. So seeing how that accounts for a few hundred million people.... I think my point is still quite applicable.

You can throw in all the faulty logic you like. What you are attempting to do is hold God resposible for the evils committed in His name. It doesn't wash. I can kill every redhead I see and say that my dog told me to, that doesn't make it my dog's fault.

Perhaps more proof of God. Would he create us near those celestial dangers you so accurately describe?

Maybe the only reason we wound up here is because all live elsewhere was destroyed. I think thats where a lot of the 'we're so great' mentality comes from. We (humans) are so full of ourselves simply for living. Maybe life had taken root elsewhere, but it was unfortunately wiped out due to a meteor, a toxic atmosphere, solar radiation, excessive heat, too little light, or the any of the other infinite permutations that would equal death. Maybe its not "this place is here for us" but more like "this is onf of the few places we haven't been Pwn3d!!!11!" Sure, the conditions may have been made perfect for us, but maybe we became perfect for the conditions.

That was tounge in cheek... It really is a moot point. If we were in such a place that we couldn't exist, we wouldn't be here to argue about it, would we?

You have your beliefs and I really don't want to waste time trying to 'prove' you wrong seeing how its A) impossible and B) I'm tired and lazy. Don't worry, I'm not going to rape your wife and burn you at the stake... :whistle2:#

No, but I might. :twisted:

:shock:!

Also tounge in cheek. I meant to highlight how your final statement had nothing to do with the earlier discussion.

In conclusion, (I'm going to bed now, I'll read and respond tomorrow) Whether God exists is a personal decision. One must make it for himself, belief does not denote a lack of intelligence. As it unfortunately seems to be equated with here.

In fact, as the the belief in an all-powerful God, I'm on the fence. I have argued as if I firmly fell into the believer camp because I didn't see enough of that viewpoint in this thread. I also thought I could be eloquent enough to do the viewpoint justice.

I hope I have done so.
 
[quote name='opportunity777']I am going to steal sblymnlcrymnl's porn ... I need it :)[/quote]

NO! MINE!

And I see you decided to go on with your wacky quoting fanskad, even after all my hard work "fixing" it. :cry: :lol:

Well it's readable, and that's what matters I suppose.
 
This topic has been moved. Please read the forum descriptions before posting. Thanks!

The preceding message was brought to you by CheapyD and the Cheap Ass Moderators
 
this thread is growing awfully fast.

nothing like a good old religious fight to the death featuring jesus and atheisms' ..............(trying to think of a poster boy for atheists)
 
[quote name='fanskad']You can throw in all the faulty logic you like. What you are attempting to do is hold God resposible for the evils committed in His name. It doesn't wash. I can kill every redhead I see and say that my dog told me to, that doesn't make it my dog's fault.[/quote]

That goes both ways.
 
there really wouldnt be so much of a problem if people knew how to keep their business to themselves. your business is between you, and the business maker.
 
[quote name='sblymnlcrymnl']Besides that your "facts" are hardly that, I would suggest not attributing your own inadequacies to others. ;)[/quote]

Hey, if you are perfect than good for you, but I know for sure that I am not and I think it is obvious that the average man isn't either.

And which facts are hardly facts?

[quote name='Zman310']Interesting. I do believe that that is the first time I have ever seen someone argue that modern science actually proves the existence of god (or a similar being). That's just...interesting.[/quote]

Science proves that the universe has order. This implies that someone ordered it. Historically this was the motivation of many of the great scientists such as Newton and Euler. The purpose of science has always been to prove the existence of god. Every piece of evidence in favor of science is evidence in favor of god. It is amazing that some people have somehow managed to twist this conclusion.
 
[quote name='CheapyD']This topic has been moved. Please read the forum descriptions before posting. Thanks!

The preceding message was brought to you by CheapyD and the Cheap Ass Moderators[/quote]

I have a feeling this thread is going to die off now. :(
 
Here's an interesting idea for some of you who say that people who believe in God can't prove his existance - prove he doesn't exist. You can't, just like people who believe in God can't prove that he does exist. Thats the problem with discussions on religion.
 
[quote name='chunk']
1. Mankind is shaq-fued (we already knew this though)
2. There is a supernatural being (we knew this too)
3. This supernatural being controls the universe (a couple thousand years ago this required some faith, but with the development of science we now know this)
4. This supernatural being cares about people (we already knew that it cared about the Jews, but the book claims that it cares about all people)
5. This supernatural being has a way out so we can get unfucked.

1,2, and 3 are just plain facts.
4 is part fact part faith, but given the credibility of this book, why not believe it?
5 calls the way out "Messiah". You just have to trust the book on #5, although it does have some amazing prophecies backing it up.

I think that any reasonable person would believe these claims. Of course I cannot prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt any more than I can prove that what you touch, smell, taste, and see isn't a dream. So if you really want to be stubborn you can insist that these claims aren't true, just like you can insist that your life is a dream and the whole world is imaginary.

However, you may have noticed that there is a loophole that will let you deny the whole thing. The loophole is if you think that you are an exception to the rule. In other words, if you think that you can do only good things and not bad things (unlike the rest of humanity). If you have enough hubris to believe this then you can reasonably deny the 5 claims above. On the other hand, if you remain humble then you cannot deny them.

Any criticisms?[/quote]

How could anyone criticize suchs a linguistic masterpiece? ... Well, hell, Let me try. Firstly, I don't know what makes you seem more ignorant, the fact that you seemingly read through ten pages of postings and still think any BELIEF is FACT or that you use the same tactic to defend your vantage point that you ostricize others for using... (stubborness... all though... in your case I think it might be ignorance with a helping of arrogance.

Time for some Sweeny-ing

1. Mankind is shaq-fued (we already knew this though)

You're pretty much right... But I'd say people like you offer more of the cause than the cure.

2. There is a supernatural being (we knew this too)

You apparently don't "know" your head from the rocks in your yard. This is as much of a fact as me proclaiming Britney Spears is the best actress ever. I'm sorry, but if you remember the fourth grade, your statement is an OPINION.

3. This supernatural being controls the universe (a couple thousand years ago this required some faith, but with the development of science we now know this)

See the previous comment and you'll realize you're wrong here, too. Not only has science NOT remotely proven this, but it has done all it can to DISPROVE this statement. Blind faith (and foolishness) is the only thing that keeps that "fact" alive.

4. This supernatural being cares about people (we already knew that it cared about the Jews, but the book claims that it cares about all people)
5. This supernatural being has a way out so we can get unfucked.

Again, this is presumption based upon 1, 2 and 3 being fact. Now that we all know those were merely your opinion, we can see that all subsequent statements are just as much and opinion. Not only that, but we can see you have a potty mouth! :p
 
[quote name='chunk'][quote name='sblymnlcrymnl']Besides that your "facts" are hardly that, I would suggest not attributing your own inadequacies to others. ;)[/quote]

Hey, if you are perfect than good for you, but I know for sure that I am not and I think it is obvious that the average man isn't either.

And which facts are hardly facts?
[/quote]

Wow. I can tell that this isn't going anywhere so I'll just say that I do not share your beliefs.

[quote name='chunk']Science proves that the universe has order. This implies that someone ordered it. Historically this was the motivation of many of the great scientists such as Newton and Euler. The purpose of science has always been to prove the existence of god. Every piece of evidence in favor of science is evidence in favor of god. It is amazing that some people have somehow managed to twist this conclusion.[/quote]

Science does not exist to find god, but rather the truth. Of course these are not necessarily mutually exclusive, but up until this point that's how it's turned out.
 
I thought people thought Newton was crazy? Gallieo was imprisoned and I think killed for saying the Earth was round. As for the discrediting, I meant more along the lines of people who argue creationism/evolution. Not people like Einstein... relativity didn't have much to do with God.... Well.. unless you think God is everwhere... which would make him moving infinitely fast.... which would actually make him appear frozen in time... but to him wed be flying right by... living our lives instantly infront of him... OMG it makes sense... "I know... I'm scare too kids."
 
[quote name='Kayden']I thought people thought Newton was crazy? Gallieo was imprisoned and I think killed for saying the Earth was round. As for the discrediting, I meant more along the lines of people who argue creationism/evolution. Not people like Einstein... relativity didn't have much to do with God.... Well.. unless you think God is everwhere... which would make him moving infinitely fast.... which would actually make him appear frozen in time... but to him wed be flying right by... living our lives instantly infront of him... OMG it makes sense... "I know... I'm scare too kids."[/quote]

He knows when you've been sleeping.
He knows when you're awake.
He knows if you've been bad or good,
so be good for goodness sake ...
 
Jesus is fucking metal!

20040804l.jpg
 
[quote name='sblymnlcrymnl'][quote name='Kayden']I thought people thought Newton was crazy? Gallieo was imprisoned and I think killed for saying the Earth was round. As for the discrediting, I meant more along the lines of people who argue creationism/evolution. Not people like Einstein... relativity didn't have much to do with God.... Well.. unless you think God is everwhere... which would make him moving infinitely fast.... which would actually make him appear frozen in time... but to him wed be flying right by... living our lives instantly infront of him... OMG it makes sense... "I know... I'm scare too kids."[/quote]

He's knows when you've been sleeping.
He knows when you're awake.
He knows if you've been bad or good,
so be good for goodness sake ...[/quote]


Why are Russian women so unfathomably hot? :drool:=P~

petranemcovasig016hj.jpg
 
I dont' have much to say. But I will say this. This is not scriptural at all, unless I just didn't know it, this is just straight from me.

If you honestly believe we exist by chance, by some random happening of evolution, you're really an idiot. If you have any common sense, any education past an 8th grade level, you'd be able to figure this out for yourself.

Think of the big bang theory. Matter and antimatter collide and battle until whatever the hell is left creates stuff, and it grows and grows. And somehow, by chance, a planet we call earth is created spinning the perfect speed in orbit, the perfect distance from a perfect sized star, and is perfect sized.

Consider how many chances there are, now. Millions. Millions upon millions. Of anything happening. A blob of matter creates what we have, I mean who the hell even says it has to create rocks for planets, it could have just spewed a bunch of goo everywhere. You really can't comprehend how random a chance like that could have been.

100+ elements are created and all found present in our earth. Our atmosphere, for example, is by chance, perect for sustaining human life. By chance, life ended up on this planet. The nutrients in the soil to feed the plants that just happen to produce oxygen which is the very thing we need to survive. In turn we produce carbon dioxide, the very thing plants need to survive.

Out of all the hundred+ elements (and millions of elements the big bang could have created), these two interact PERFECTLY between plants and us. Chance? Probably not. It's getting less and less likely.

The human body. The most complex thing, freaking ever. There are no doubt millions of processes occuring in the human body, in each one of us right now that if they didn't happen, we'd be dead. How many different tasks go on perfectly in our bodies, that have to take place and according to evolutionism, happened to be created by chance.

Consider now, all the billions of different things needed (in our bodies and out) to sustain human life. And even if it's millions, say millions. If even a hundred of these thigns were changed, we couldn't survive. If just one of the few I just listed were changed, we couldn't survive.

Chances are, logically, scientifically, and USING COMMON SENSE, that these chances are impossible. For every single thing to be perfect as it is right now and being 100% randomized by a big bang, or whatever you choose to believe, literally billions or trillions of possibilities and things that could go wrong and we would not exist. It is not POSSIBLE for evolution to have taken place, knowing these things.

One last thing. Say evolution is real. Fish evolved into snakes, snakes evolved into lizards, lizards evolved into what the hell ever. Not only would there be a transition between the snake and the lizard..there would be millions of them. It couldn't possibly be a straight transformation, if it really took as long as evolutionists say. And for all the thousands, maybe even millions of evolutionistic changes that had to take place to get to humans, there would be a million different stages in between each one of those. The earth should be teeming with fossils of pigs turning into donkeys. Millions of them. And of other various things.

But there's not one. Not ONE.

That's it, i'm done.
 
[quote name='Kayden'][quote name='sblymnlcrymnl'][quote name='Kayden']I thought people thought Newton was crazy? Gallieo was imprisoned and I think killed for saying the Earth was round. As for the discrediting, I meant more along the lines of people who argue creationism/evolution. Not people like Einstein... relativity didn't have much to do with God.... Well.. unless you think God is everwhere... which would make him moving infinitely fast.... which would actually make him appear frozen in time... but to him wed be flying right by... living our lives instantly infront of him... OMG it makes sense... "I know... I'm scare too kids."[/quote]

He knows when you've been sleeping.
He knows when you're awake.
He knows if you've been bad or good,
so be good for goodness sake ...[/quote]


Why are Russian women so unfathomably hot? :drool:=P~

petranemcovasig016hj.jpg
[/quote]

Who, Petra? Actually she's Czech, but close enough right? :lol:
 
[quote name='gunther']I dont' have much to say. But I will say this. This is not scriptural at all, unless I just didn't know it, this is just straight from me.

If you honestly believe we exist by chance, by some random happening of evolution, you're really an idiot. If you have any common sense, any education past an 8th grade level, you'd be able to figure this out for yourself.

Think of the big bang theory. Matter and antimatter collide and battle until whatever the hell is left creates stuff, and it grows and grows. And somehow, by chance, a planet we call earth is created spinning the perfect speed in orbit, the perfect distance from a perfect sized star, and is perfect sized.

Consider how many chances there are, now. Millions. Millions upon millions. Of anything happening. A blob of matter creates what we have, I mean who the hell even says it has to create rocks for planets, it could have just spewed a bunch of goo everywhere. You really can't comprehend how random a chance like that could have been.

100+ elements are created and all found present in our earth. Our atmosphere, for example, is by chance, perect for sustaining human life. By chance, life ended up on this planet. The nutrients in the soil to feed the plants that just happen to produce oxygen which is the very thing we need to survive. In turn we produce carbon dioxide, the very thing plants need to survive.

Out of all the hundred+ elements (and millions of elements the big bang could have created), these two interact PERFECTLY between plants and us. Chance? Probably not. It's getting less and less likely.

The human body. The most complex thing, freaking ever. There are no doubt millions of processes occuring in the human body, in each one of us right now that if they didn't happen, we'd be dead. How many different tasks go on perfectly in our bodies, that have to take place and according to evolutionism, happened to be created by chance.

Consider now, all the billions of different things needed (in our bodies and out) to sustain human life. And even if it's millions, say millions. If even a hundred of these thigns were changed, we couldn't survive. If just one of the few I just listed were changed, we couldn't survive.

Chances are, logically, scientifically, and USING COMMON SENSE, that these chances are impossible. For every single thing to be perfect as it is right now and being 100% randomized by a big bang, or whatever you choose to believe, literally billions or trillions of possibilities and things that could go wrong and we would not exist. It is not POSSIBLE for evolution to have taken place, knowing these things.

One last thing. Say evolution is real. Fish evolved into snakes, snakes evolved into lizards, lizards evolved into what the hell ever. Not only would there be a transition between the snake and the lizard..there would be millions of them. It couldn't possibly be a straight transformation, if it really took as long as evolutionists say. And for all the thousands, maybe even millions of evolutionistic changes that had to take place to get to humans, there would be a million different stages in between each one of those. The earth should be teeming with fossils of pigs turning into donkeys. Millions of them. And of other various things.

But there's not one. Not ONE.

That's it, i'm done.[/quote]

You obviously don't even understand the basic concepts of evolution.

Also, what is the probability that and omnipotent being created all that is on a whim? Not very high if you ask me.
 
[quote name='sblymnlcrymnl']

You obviously don't even understand the basic concepts of evolution.

Also, what is the probability that and omnipotent being created all that is on a whim? Not very high if you ask me.[/quote]

1. You obviously don't understand the basic concepts of Engilsh, so I don't expect you to be able to understand what I said.

2. You also obviously don't understand much about Christianity if you think it was on a "whim".
 
[quote name='Kayden'][quote name='CrashSpyro123']Jesus is shaq-fuing metal!

20040804l.jpg
[/quote]


:rofl: so inappropriet! :lol:[/quote]

But it feels sooooo right!
 
[quote name='gunther']I dont' have much to say. But I will say this. This is not scriptural at all, unless I just didn't know it, this is just straight from me.

If you honestly believe we exist by chance, by some random happening of evolution, you're really an idiot. If you have any common sense, any education past an 8th grade level, you'd be able to figure this out for yourself.

Think of the big bang theory. Matter and antimatter collide and battle until whatever the hell is left creates stuff, and it grows and grows. And somehow, by chance, a planet we call earth is created spinning the perfect speed in orbit, the perfect distance from a perfect sized star, and is perfect sized.

Consider how many chances there are, now. Millions. Millions upon millions. Of anything happening. A blob of matter creates what we have, I mean who the hell even says it has to create rocks for planets, it could have just spewed a bunch of goo everywhere. You really can't comprehend how random a chance like that could have been.

100+ elements are created and all found present in our earth. Our atmosphere, for example, is by chance, perect for sustaining human life. By chance, life ended up on this planet. The nutrients in the soil to feed the plants that just happen to produce oxygen which is the very thing we need to survive. In turn we produce carbon dioxide, the very thing plants need to survive.

Out of all the hundred+ elements (and millions of elements the big bang could have created), these two interact PERFECTLY between plants and us. Chance? Probably not. It's getting less and less likely.

The human body. The most complex thing, freaking ever. There are no doubt millions of processes occuring in the human body, in each one of us right now that if they didn't happen, we'd be dead. How many different tasks go on perfectly in our bodies, that have to take place and according to evolutionism, happened to be created by chance.

Consider now, all the billions of different things needed (in our bodies and out) to sustain human life. And even if it's millions, say millions. If even a hundred of these thigns were changed, we couldn't survive. If just one of the few I just listed were changed, we couldn't survive.

Chances are, logically, scientifically, and USING COMMON SENSE, that these chances are impossible. For every single thing to be perfect as it is right now and being 100% randomized by a big bang, or whatever you choose to believe, literally billions or trillions of possibilities and things that could go wrong and we would not exist. It is not POSSIBLE for evolution to have taken place, knowing these things.

One last thing. Say evolution is real. Fish evolved into snakes, snakes evolved into lizards, lizards evolved into what the hell ever. Not only would there be a transition between the snake and the lizard..there would be millions of them. It couldn't possibly be a straight transformation, if it really took as long as evolutionists say. And for all the thousands, maybe even millions of evolutionistic changes that had to take place to get to humans, there would be a million different stages in between each one of those. The earth should be teeming with fossils of pigs turning into donkeys. Millions of them. And of other various things.

But there's not one. Not ONE.

That's it, i'm done.[/quote]

For starters, its nice to see you're coming into this with such an open mind.... :roll:

I could insult you on so many levels... but I'm tired and just insult you by making sense.

All your ranting/babbling is based on the assumption that the course for evolution had to be 100% perfect for us to get here... I'm pretty sure that theres life on other plantes with other conditions. It probably wouldn't even remotely resemble life as we know it. Evolution is making the best of what you have. There isn't air here to breathe because we need it, we breathe air because we have it! Had our planet had an atmosphere more helium heavy, I'm sure we would have adapted to it. (the F'in point of evolution) Also, at birthday partys we'd huff oxygen and make really funny sounding deep voices... ^_^

Again, this planet wasn't 100% talored to us, we've accustomed ourselves to it. Think thats BS? Look at regional climate. In Minnesota, when it is 50 degrees out, you will see people in shorts. At 60 degrees in Florida there are people in winter coats freezing their asses off. You can see the short term affects of evolution and adaptation yourself. Go to a public pool and take a cold shower. Stay in it for 3-5 minutes and jump in the pool. The pool will feel very warm because you've become adapted to the cold. Vice versa, if you take a warm shower, the water will feel incredibly cold.

Also... as for the many complex process that the body needs to happen... Well, SOMETIMES THEY DON'T... yea, I think I heard it was called ... uh... oh yea, DEATH.

Fossilization is not a common process. Infact, it is very rare, thats why fossils are worth more money and normal rocks. Fossilization also takes many... MANY years. Short term, you'd just find really stinky mud.

Gee, I think I'll take logic and common sense over 8th grade science any day.
 
[quote name='CrashSpyro123'][quote name='Kayden'][quote name='CrashSpyro123']Jesus is shaq-fuing metal!

20040804l.jpg
[/quote]


:rofl: so inappropriet! :lol:[/quote]

But it feels sooooo right![/quote]

lol that's awful but it's hilarious
 
Normally I'd be all over this topic, but I just want someone to answer one question. If the universe being created without a god is impossible, if evolution without god is impossible, what created god? If god exists, something had to create it, right? If it just was and has no beginning, how is that more reasonable than the big bang, evolution etc.? If it is so impossible to create something as complex as earth without a creator, creating something as complex as god should be just as impossible.
 
[quote name='gunther'][quote name='sblymnlcrymnl']

You obviously don't even understand the basic concepts of evolution.

Also, what is the probability that and omnipotent being created all that is on a whim? Not very high if you ask me.[/quote]

1. You obviously don't understand the basic concepts of Engilsh, so I don't expect you to be able to understand what I said.

2. You also obviously don't understand much about Christianity if you think it was on a "whim".[/quote]

Pigs turning into donkeys? Please.

Ok, maybe it wasn't a "whim". I suppose god could have sat there in nothingness for an eternity pondering the infinite posibilites before finally deciding to create the universe and everything in it. Personally, and I could be wrong here, I would think that god would have to ability to instantly know the difference between a good idea and a bad one. Thus no deliberation should have been needed. Now with the initial idea leading directly to action, I think that fits the definition of a whim.
 
Also... as for the many complex process that the body needs to happen... Well, SOMETIMES THEY DON'T... yea, I think I heard it was called ... uh... oh yea, DEATH.
Click to expand...

hey good job being irrelevant.

all i can say is, i'm sorry you're so blind, and you'll find out when this "death" happens.
 
[quote name='gunther'][quote name='sblymnlcrymnl']

You obviously don't even understand the basic concepts of evolution.

Also, what is the probability that and omnipotent being created all that is on a whim? Not very high if you ask me.[/quote]

1. You obviously don't understand the basic concepts of Engilsh, so I don't expect you to be able to understand what I said.

2. You also obviously don't understand much about Christianity if you think it was on a "whim".[/quote]

I want to let sub tear you apart... but its just so tempting to do it myself...

Make Petra and me proud. =)
 
[quote name='sblymnlcrymnl']Well that's the thing. I don't need someone to tell me what is good or bad, I already know. I also believe that most people have an idea of right and wrong from a very young age. I don't know about you but I didn't need my parents/teachers/priest to tell me that I shouldn't kill people.[/quote]

Of course you don't need a priest to tell you that you shouldn't kill people. However, knowing that if you drop a rock it will fall doesn't mean that you couldn't benefit from learning about the finer points of gravity.

Learning more is always a good thing.

[quote name='Kayden']How could anyone criticize suchs a linguistic masterpiece? ... Well, hell, Let me try. Firstly, I don't know what makes you seem more ignorant, the fact that you seemingly read through ten pages of postings and still think any BELIEF is FACT or that you use the same tactic to defend your vantage point that you ostricize others for using... (stubborness... all though... in your case I think it might be ignorance with a helping of arrogance.

Time for some Sweeny-ing

1. Mankind is shaq-fued (we already knew this though)

You're pretty much right... But I'd say people like you offer more of the cause than the cure.

2. There is a supernatural being (we knew this too)

You apparently don't "know" your head from the rocks in your yard. This is as much of a fact as me proclaiming Britney Spears is the best actress ever. I'm sorry, but if you remember the fourth grade, your statement is an OPINION.

3. This supernatural being controls the universe (a couple thousand years ago this required some faith, but with the development of science we now know this)

See the previous comment and you'll realize you're wrong here, too. Not only has science NOT remotely proven this, but it has done all it can to DISPROVE this statement. Blind faith (and foolishness) is the only thing that keeps that "fact" alive.

4. This supernatural being cares about people (we already knew that it cared about the Jews, but the book claims that it cares about all people)
5. This supernatural being has a way out so we can get unfucked.

Again, this is presumption based upon 1, 2 and 3 being fact. Now that we all know those were merely your opinion, we can see that all subsequent statements are just as much and opinion. Not only that, but we can see you have a potty mouth! :p[/quote]

No. You did not read my post. You quote me right after I present some evidence for my conclusion. I will explain more clearly.

Statement: The supernatural exists
Proof: Assume that there is an logical and deductive (we can construct logical statements) system that can discover all truths. Call this system "science" and the truths which science can discover "nature". By Godel's incompleteness theorem (see wikipedia) such a system is either incomplete (it cannot describe everything) or it is not logical. We know that the truth is logical. Therefore, science is either false or incomplete. Take your pick. Either way it cannot discover all truths. Therefore, there are truths that are outside of the natural world.

Statement: The supernatural controls the universe.
Evidence: I don't have a proof for this one, but I have a compelling argument. If you study science, one thing you will notice is that it always explains the immediate cause before the indirect cause. For example, first science demonstrated that light comes from the sun, then science explained where the sun comes from. If we assume that it will continue to follow this trend then science will explain the most trivial things first and the ultimate cause last. If it ever explains the ultimate cause then it will have explained everything. But we know by the last proof that it cannot explain everything, so it can never explain the ultimate cause. So the ultimate cause is outside the natural world and is, therefore, supernatural.
 
[quote name='Kayden'][quote name='gunther'][quote name='sblymnlcrymnl']

You obviously don't even understand the basic concepts of evolution.

Also, what is the probability that and omnipotent being created all that is on a whim? Not very high if you ask me.[/quote]

1. You obviously don't understand the basic concepts of Engilsh, so I don't expect you to be able to understand what I said.

2. You also obviously don't understand much about Christianity if you think it was on a "whim".[/quote]

I want to let sub tear you apart... but its just so tempting to do it myself...

Make Petra and me proud. =)[/quote]

Eh, I'm just about done here and frankly his statement don't deserve much of a response. I did post a short one anyway.
 
[quote name='gunther']
Also... as for the many complex process that the body needs to happen... Well, SOMETIMES THEY DON'T... yea, I think I heard it was called ... uh... oh yea, DEATH.
Click to expand...

hey good job being irrelevant.

all i can say is, i'm sorry you're so blind, and you'll find out when this "death" happens.[/quote]

Irrelevant? Did you read my post? Or for that matter, your own?

You said that numerous things need to happen for the human body to function... I said, sometimes those things actually don't happen, hence, death.

Just like a computer, a modern cpu can handle 3,000,000,000 operations a second. Sometimes they make a mistake. Then you get errors, program crashes and system failures. Same thing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top