LOST Season 5 Discussion - 5/13: The Incident -

And that's why I think they absolutely must stick to their six-season plan. As Pierre Chang might say "It is of the utmost importance." I think that in this time where the plot threads are reaching critical mass and before the real endgame stretch run begins, ratings are going to take a hit of a sizable degree. Maybe many of these people won't come back at all (or at least until the last three or four episodes, just for closure and water cooler cred).

Me, I'm way too immersed to be confused. But there have been at least a couple points in this young season where I've been frustrated at the pacing or the storytelling, so I can only imagine what a 'normal viewer' watching must be thinking.

My biggest fear is that they're going to be dicks about answering most of the core questions, playing the "It's more fun to use your imagination!" card, encouraging endless post-series debate and maybe, just maybe, using that lack of certainty as the fulcrum of, I dunno, a couple shitty novels, an even worse comic series, a hardbound picture encyclopedia or two, or even--gasp!!--a motion picture!

LOST
 
[quote name='jollydwarf']And that's why I think they absolutely must stick to their six-season plan. As Pierre Chang might say "It is of the utmost importance." I think that in this time where the plot threads are reaching critical mass and before the real endgame stretch run begins, ratings are going to take a hit of a sizable degree. Maybe many of these people won't come back at all (or at least until the last three or four episodes, just for closure and water cooler cred).

Me, I'm way too immersed to be confused. But there have been at least a couple points in this young season where I've been frustrated at the pacing or the storytelling, so I can only imagine what a 'normal viewer' watching must be thinking.

My biggest fear is that they're going to be dicks about answering most of the core questions, playing the "It's more fun to use your imagination!" card, encouraging endless post-series debate and maybe, just maybe, using that lack of certainty as the fulcrum of, I dunno, a couple shitty novels, an even worse comic series, a hardbound picture encyclopedia or two, or even--gasp!!--a motion picture!

LOST[/quote]

it's all about the benjamins
 
tonights episode was good. i guess the smoke monster lives in the temple that has been referred to in previous seasons. i was reallying hoping we were going to see jin go inside.

i was sad to see charlotte die because 1, shes hot. 2, i like daniel and feel bad for him.

im really looking forward to next week episode, the title is "The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham" so i guess were going to see a lot of locke talking with the 6.

it was nice to see a little of danielle's story, but it was very little.
 
Last night's episode was pretty telling, and although the writers have dismissed the theory, lends a lot of credibility to the idea that the smoke monster is comprised of many, many nanomachines. It would make sense, given the "infection" of the Frenchies. The idea of using nanomachines to "infect" people is nothing new (think Metal Gear Solid). Also, it made me think that, if this is some sort of futuristic technology, and we know that time travel is possible on the island, then maybe the ruins where Smokey resides aren't from the past - but, rather, from the future.

There was a still from a preview someone captured that I haven't been able to find of the smoke monster attacking one of the Frenchies, and in that shot, it truly looks like a dog. Which is cool, because the "security system" is called Cerebrus, and there's a pretty credible theory floating around that Vincent either is a manifestation of the smoke moster or is controlled by the smoke monster. I'm waiting to see how important Vincent ends up being to the whole Lost story. In a recent podcast, one of the producers confirmed Vincent as surviving through the end of season 6 - the only survivor of the series confirmed so far.

I was disappointed to see Charlotte die - I was beginning to think they'd just throw her into a coma like Faraday's other love interest. I wonder if this will make him manic, because we saw how different he seemed a couple weeks ago when we saw the scene where he infiltrated the Orchid during its construction - now obviously motivated to destroy it or something by Charlotte's death. It's going to be very interesting when we go back to that point in time later this season and see just what he's up to, how he got there (since Locke presumably just "righted" time) and his interaction with little Charlotte.

Also worth noting, I loved how they affirmed Rousseau's story that her companions went crazy, and not the other way around. And it was really way too convenient that Sawyer just happened to show up behind Jin, although I guess it makes sense that they would have been drawn to the sound of gunfire, which explains why Sawyer would have his gun already drawn.

One last thing, I'm very excited to see how they begin to matter-of-factly weave Christian theology into the story. If that shot of the cross outside the church weren't enough, the mere fact that Eloise Hawking holds up inside a church is pretty intriguing. It's a very, very cool juxtaposition of faith and science (man of faith, man of science).

EDIT: Does anyone think Locke will show up in Tunisia (where Ben and that polar bear ended up)? If not, what's your guess?
 
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Once again we have another slow episode. But it looks like everyone is finally back together so we can see the entire cast in single episodes instead of staggering them. I'm glad Desmond is caught up with the main group. He's my 2nd favorite character (Locke being my favorite).
 
If Charlotte is dead, wouldn't miles have some reaction to it? He can talk to the dead after all... also if the speed of when someone gets a nose bleed (effected by time travel) is in proportion to how long they have been on the island, wouldn't Charlotte be one of the last people to become affected, since she admits that she grew up on the island? I assume she left between the age of 5-7.. And how did she know the well would be there? Was she time traveling in her mind? If so what was she talking about "marrying an american"? Does she really live and end up marrying Faraday?

So many questions. Damn I love this show.
 
i was reallying hoping we were going to see jin go inside.

I think we'll see Daniel do that eventually. I could be wrong, but the reason I think that is because in the first teaser trailer for Season Five, we see him in a subterranean cave examining things. It's clearly not where the "Frozen Donkey Wheel" is, although I believe he is wearing the gear he has on during the season premiere's opening sequence in the Orchid.

Maybe something happens to him in such a situation, and he gets "sick" as a result, which might be the explanation for why Charlotte remembers him as a "crazy man."

Last night's episode was pretty telling, and although the writers have dismissed the theory, lends a lot of credibility to the idea that the smoke monster is comprised of many, many nanomachines.

I really don't think it's "nanomachines" as we might know of them. I think the monster might be a collection of souls or something more timeless and/or organic. At the same time, I couldn't help but notice the clanking chain sound again while Montand was being pulled along the ground.

If Charlotte is dead, wouldn't miles have some reaction to it?

Well, she just died, and I think he has to be in some physical proximity to their place of death (or maybe eventually their residence) to interact with them.

One last thing, I'm very excited to see how they begin to matter-of-factly weave Christian theology into the story. If that shot of the cross outside the church weren't enough, the mere fact that Eloise Hawking holds up inside a church is pretty intriguing. It's a very, very cool juxtaposition of faith and science (man of faith, man of science).

If you slowly go through the preview for next week's episode, you can see Ben in the church smirking at THIS "Doubting Thomas" painting. Not exactly sure what the significance is.

I was disappointed to see Charlotte die - I was beginning to think they'd just throw her into a coma like Faraday's other love interest. I wonder if this will make him manic,

I still want to know what event (presumably on the island) was making him violently weep back in the second episode of Season Four.

EDIT: Does anyone think Locke will show up in Tunisia (where Ben and that polar bear ended up)? If not, what's your guess?

I've wondered about this, too. It would be a little too convenient if he showed up in the L.A. area, so maybe Ben already has provisions ready for his appearance? I'm also wondering if his terribly shattered leg will be miraculously repaired. Man, what a dick Christian Shephard was being to him!
 
Christian Shephard has always been a blowhard throughout the show.

And yes, Charlotte will be missed dearly, she was so pretty


My question is will Desmond seriously go back to the Island with them? I thought his only intent was to find Faraday's mother and thats it.

Plus, what is up with the ageless man and the 4 toed statue... I WANT TO KNOW
 
Something tells me that Desmond will end up going back against his will, or he'll only leave because Ben makes good on his word to kill Penny (even if he has someone else do the dirty work). I mean, Ms. Hawking can try to remind him of how it's his destiny, but between how he (apparently) changed things in "Flashes Before Your Eyes" and what Daniel told him at the hatch side entrance, he'll call her out on it.

Then again...would she and Ben even want him to go back? It seems like they want a very specific set of events to happen, and if he's a 'wild card', he could be completely disruptive to that. But on the other other hand, Ben doesn't seem too surprised to see him at the church, and his silent dismissal of Desmond's understanding that they're there to find Faraday's mother suggests that he already knows that Desmond's in for more than he could have ever bargained for. Like, "Yeah, that's what you believe? If that's what it takes...."
 
[quote name='jollydwarf']

If you slowly go through the preview for next week's episode, you can see Ben in the church smirking at THIS "Doubting Thomas" painting. Not exactly sure what the significance is.
[/quote]

I'm impressed you noticed that. They only show it for maybe 1/10th of a second.
 
[quote name='jollydwarf']Something tells me that Desmond will end up going back against his will, or he'll only leave because Ben makes good on his word to kill Penny (even if he has someone else do the dirty work). I mean, Ms. Hawking can try to remind him of how it's his destiny, but between how he (apparently) changed things in "Flashes Before Your Eyes" and what Daniel told him at the hatch side entrance, he'll call her out on it.

[/QUOTE]

i hope penny doesnt die. i have a feeling were going to have a ben/widmore showdown coming up real soon. sun may have already tipped him off that everyone is in LA, and you know whidmore wont be going down quietly while ben tries to get back to the island.
 
Whidmore is going to probably attack all of them at the church. He sent Desmond there prior to warning him to just disappear and stay safe with Penny, and Sun was in his pocket prior to realizing her vendetta against Ben might be null and void if Jin is not dead. Penny would probably have to die, as I see no other way to convince Desmond to go back with the rest.
 
So.. how do they get to the island? Fly in an airplane with Locke in his coffin-- resulting in another plane crash like how Jack flew Christian? =/
 
[quote name='shinryuu']So.. how do they get to the island? Fly in an airplane with Locke in his coffin-- resulting in another plane crash like how Jack flew Christian? =/[/quote]

Jesus. I never even thought of the similarity until just now. Is Christian dead because he had to sacrifice himself to get the Losties on the island in the first place?
 
[quote name='jaso']Jesus. I never even thought of the similarity until just now. Is Christian dead because he had to sacrifice himself to get the Losties on the island in the first place?[/QUOTE]

wow, never thought of something like that before. i suppose were going to find out if thats true soon enough.
 
I'm kinda interested in watching the older seasons' Christian scenes. Seems like he might have been an alcoholic because he knew what he would have to do to go there, and why he was so adamant on visiting Claire one last time. But we still don't know his connection to anything. I never thought we'd find out more about Alpert before anything new on Christian.
 
So.. how do they get to the island? Fly in an airplane with Locke in his coffin-- resulting in another plane crash like how Jack flew Christian? =/

Well, interesting thing is, if you watch the teaser for next week's episode slowly (I think just about any DVR has that super slo-mo frame-by-frame sort of feature), towards the end you can see a few very quick shots of what looks like the camera falling through tree limbs. Then, (even at normal speed), you see what looks like a suited Jack falling into the same body of water that Sawyer and Kate found the Halliburton case in, back in Season One. There's someone already in the water, face down (Sun?). I really doubt they'd bail out of a low-flying plane like that, and I really doubt someone would just chuck Locke's coffin out of the side hatch door. In other words, my thinking is that they get back through some other method.

I wonder about Kate's seemingly throwaway (shyeah, right!) line to Aaron about the "choo-choo" going into the tunnel and "never coming back" being a strong clue. My guess is that they do something much more mind-bending than catch a flight. But that's all just guesswork on very little.

I'm also wondering...what's up with Ji Yeon and little Charlie? I can't imagine either of them go to the island (at least with the Oceanic Six), and yet I can't see them being separated from their parents for the rest of their lives. Hell, if Penny gets offed, and Desmond goes back, Charlie is an orphan. So many questions, so long to wait.
 
[quote name='shinryuu']So.. how do they get to the island? Fly in an airplane with Locke in his coffin-- resulting in another plane crash like how Jack flew Christian? =/[/quote]

[quote name='jaso']Jesus. I never even thought of the similarity until just now. Is Christian dead because he had to sacrifice himself to get the Losties on the island in the first place?[/quote]

That's nuts! I never thought of that.
 
[quote name='jollydwarf']So.. how do they get to the island? Fly in an airplane with Locke in his coffin-- resulting in another plane crash like how Jack flew Christian? =/

Well, interesting thing is, if you watch the teaser for next week's episode slowly (I think just about any DVR has that super slo-mo frame-by-frame sort of feature), towards the end you can see a few very quick shots of what looks like the camera falling through tree limbs. Then, (even at normal speed), you see what looks like a suited Jack falling into the same body of water that Sawyer and Kate found the Halliburton case in, back in Season One. There's someone already in the water, face down (Sun?). I really doubt they'd bail out of a low-flying plane like that, and I really doubt someone would just chuck Locke's coffin out of the side hatch door. In other words, my thinking is that they get back through some other method.

I wonder about Kate's seemingly throwaway (shyeah, right!) line to Aaron about the "choo-choo" going into the tunnel and "never coming back" being a strong clue. My guess is that they do something much more mind-bending than catch a flight. But that's all just guesswork on very little.

I'm also wondering...what's up with Ji Yeon and little Charlie? I can't imagine either of them go to the island (at least with the Oceanic Six), and yet I can't see them being separated from their parents for the rest of their lives. Hell, if Penny gets offed, and Desmond goes back, Charlie is an orphan. So many questions, so long to wait.[/QUOTE]

I was kidding about another plane crash. Obviously Mrs. Hawking has something up her sleeve. Faraday's mother, was in Desmond's weird mind moments, etc. I don't know what fan therories are out there right now, but I'm sure a lot of have to do with her invlovement as well. It is kinda interesting how Locke is in a casket is similar to Christian in a casket... both going to the island. If Christian is "alive" (not physically, but.. through the island/Jacob?) when his body came back to the island, would Locke be alive when he returns to the island? Hm.

I feel like rewatching the series, except I'm too lazy. I don't think I've ever rewatched an episode of Lost just to see or find out any mysterious connections. =p
 
[quote name='jollydwarf']So.. how do they get to the island? Fly in an airplane with Locke in his coffin-- resulting in another plane crash like how Jack flew Christian? =/

Well, interesting thing is, if you watch the teaser for next week's episode slowly (I think just about any DVR has that super slo-mo frame-by-frame sort of feature), towards the end you can see a few very quick shots of what looks like the camera falling through tree limbs. Then, (even at normal speed), you see what looks like a suited Jack falling into the same body of water that Sawyer and Kate found the Halliburton case in, back in Season One. There's someone already in the water, face down (Sun?). I really doubt they'd bail out of a low-flying plane like that, and I really doubt someone would just chuck Locke's coffin out of the side hatch door. In other words, my thinking is that they get back through some other method.
[/QUOTE]

well if theres a wheel that can "teleport" you to tunisia, it makes sense to think theres probably a way to get "teleported" right back.

I'm also wondering...what's up with Ji Yeon and little Charlie? I can't imagine either of them go to the island (at least with the Oceanic Six), and yet I can't see them being separated from their parents for the rest of their lives. Hell, if Penny gets offed, and Desmond goes back, Charlie is an orphan. So many questions, so long to wait.
Click to expand...

ive been wondering this as well. i cant imagine either of them being orphaned, i would think they end up on the island one way or another OR their parents end up off the island.

[quote name='shinryuu'] If Christian is "alive" (not physically, but.. through the island/Jacob?) when his body came back to the island, would Locke be alive when he returns to the island? Hm.

[/QUOTE]


thats what id assume will happen and i bet a lot of fans think thats what will happen. but i wouldnt put it past the writers to have him come back as a living breating person once hes back on the island.
 
It's worth noting, I think, that Christian, according to Damon and Carlton, is in the "undead" category on the writers' character status board. He's in select company, as, if I remember correctly, only Yemi and Kate's horse also share that designation. I would imagine that Locke would be in this category, too.

I hope we see Walt this week. (Or at least at some point this season.) It would be a damned shame if his "special" story arc fizzled out and went absolutely nowhere. I'll bet it doesn't.
 
This week's episode is 316, not The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham. They switched the two (I guess they're self contained).

Also, I think Locke convinces Jack to go back to the island by telling him about Christian, without the knowledge that he's Jack's dad.
 
Ben: "I made a promise to an old friend of mine; just a loose end that needs sewing up."

He's so going to go kill Penny.
 
[quote name='crunchb3rry']So Desmond and Aaron were not on the plane? That might explain "Jin Workman"[/quote]

I'm sure they'll explain that the same way they explain Daniel workman. If Desmond showsup.it will have to be by boat to recreate the original circumstances.
 
[quote name='jaso']Ben: "I made a promise to an old friend of mine; just a loose end that needs sewing up."

He's so going to go kill Penny.[/quote]
I thought that was what he was going to do. Makes sense since Desmond and Penny were on a boat and he made the call from a pier. But if he's all beat up does that mean he killed Desmond too?

Also, what happened to Aaron? Seemed strange that Kate asked Jack never to bring it up.
 
But if he's all beat up does that mean he killed Desmond too?

Either that, or Desmond kicked his ass. I can't believe Desmond is dead yet. The island wouldn't allow it.

Also, what happened to Aaron? Seemed strange that Kate asked Jack never to bring it up.

Actually, I know Kate played the ultimate trump card ("Ask me again and I won't go back"), but I was almost shaking my head that Jack just dropped it so abruptly. Maybe Kate got another call from "Claire" that convinced her to NOT bring him back. I seem to remember seeing a clip of Kate hearing her on a cell phone in one of the early teasers for this season. "Can't...bring him back...Kate." Or something like that. I'm positive it wasn't from last season, too.

Personally, I'm starting to think that late this season or in Season Six, we see Aaron and Ji Yeon (and maybe Charlie) come to the island...as (young) adults. That seems to be the way things are setting up. Just a hunch, though.

For tonight, I give it a solid 7.5/10. Some nice moments, but another set-up episode. Next week's looks pretty powerful, and looks to fill in a lot of narrative gaps.


P.S. What does it say that I miss Faraday now more than the Oceanic Six?
 
[quote name='emg28']*covers eyes while posting*

fuck, I forgot that Lost is on tonight.[/quote]

Epic fail lol.

I'm guessing baby Aaron was dropped off with Claire's mother.

Tonights episode was sad. It took an hour to explain nothing. Soooo much pointless filler.
 
more and more questions.

whos the woman with sayid, wtf happened to desmond? why was ben beat up? and what about the children?! wont somebody think of the children? charlie, ji yeon and aaron are all foster kids now.

so it seems obvious, but i guess they got back by flying through one of the time warps and were "allowed" to join because they were on the island before.

with jin and daniel both being dharma workers it would seem the time lapses must have slown down considerably on the island.

i assume locke will be a ghost for the rest of the series, then again, with all that st thomas talk who knows.

eloise said dharma knew the island existed, but not where it was. widmore anyone? from what i understand of lost mythology, the hanso foundation funded dharma, but the hanso foundation also has ties with widmore corporation. im sure well find out soon enough.

my friend and i were talking this past weekend and were discussing some of our theories, one thing we talked about was christian shepard being an "other". as in, he was on the island before and died, like locke did, to being everyone to the island in the first place. and thats why we see christian as a ghost so often and jacobs right hand man.

googled "ajira" and found, http://www.ajiraairways.com/
 
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I'm sticking with the idea that the two bodies found in the cave during season 1 are actually Sawyer and Kate.
 
I'm guessing baby Aaron was dropped off with Claire's mother.

I agree. This seems to be far and away the most likely explanation.

Tonights episode was sad. It took an hour to explain nothing. Soooo much pointless filler.

I also agree that this season has, on the whole, been on the slower, more methodical side, but it also seems inherently bleaker than any other season. My hope is that it starts to ramp up once (virtually) all of the 815 survivors are reunited.

I hope we at least see a brief appearance by Walt next week, what with it being the 'Jeremy Bentham backstory' episode and all. I'd really hate for his character to simply become an unresolved loose end.

Did anyone listen closely to The Numbers being broadcast from the tower last week? I initially thought it sounded like Faraday, then I saw something online about it being Hurley, but now I'm thinking Lapidus is a possibility in that mix.

Anyway, it seems like a good portion of this season is going to take place during the heyday of the Dharma Initiative. So do our heroes escape that time period before the purge? Do they change it? Will Ben meet himself??
 
Was I the only one who really didn't like where they went with this last episode?

I just didn't like any of the plot developments on it. I mean seriously, they have to recreate what happened in the first place in order to get teleported back? I find that incredibly dumb. I know that the writers could have come up with something better than that.
 
[quote name='crunchb3rry']So Desmond and Aaron were not on the plane? That might explain "Jin Workman"[/QUOTE]

Wait, what are you talking about?

From what I understand, the ones on the island got stuck in the same time period when Locke turned the wheel. When the wheel was stuck, it was causing those flashes. Now when he turned the wheel, he made the island and the other people (Sawyer, Juliet, etc.) trapped in a time period. They adapted and are now in disguise as Dharma workmen or whoever.
 
[quote name='darthbudge']
I just didn't like any of the plot developments on it. I mean seriously, they have to recreate what happened in the first place in order to get teleported back? I find that incredibly dumb. I know that the writers could have come up with something better than that.[/QUOTE]

yeah i kind of felt the same way. but i think the main point was they needed a dead locke to get in, because mrs hawking didnt seem too concerned with only some of the people there.

[quote name='shinryuu']

From what I understand, the ones on the island got stuck in the same time period when Locke turned the wheel. When the wheel was stuck, it was causing those flashes. Now when he turned the wheel, he made the island and the other people (Sawyer, Juliet, etc.) trapped in a time period. They adapted and are now in disguise as Dharma workmen or whoever.[/QUOTE]

yeah, thats kind of what i thought too after seeing the wheel stuck when locke was down there.
 
Interesting that they got back to the island so quickly.

But the episode was clearly just another set up to the rest of the season because you need mysteries.
 
I just didn't like any of the plot developments on it. I mean seriously, they have to recreate what happened in the first place in order to get teleported back? I find that incredibly dumb. I know that the writers could have come up with something better than that.

Thing is, they've been setting up the necessity for them all to go back arguably since the Season Three finale (i.e., "WE HAVE TO GO BACK!!" and Locke and Ben trying to talk Jack out of making the call to the boat). Remember, we don't know the central mystery to the show, namely, what the fuck is going on. With the island, specifically. The 'convenient' nature of the time flashes seem to indicate that an intelligence is behind a lot of the forces affecting the people on (and off) the island. Maybe it's Jacob. Maybe it's God. Maybe it's the LOST version of The Force. Maybe it's all happening in the head of one or more characters (the latter as in a virtual reality simulation).

Regardless, Destiny is a central theme of the show, and I think it's pretty clear that the island isn't done with anyone who left it at the end of last season. Except maybe Ben. More and more, it seems like he's acting in blatant defiance of whatever intelligence or force controls the island. He probably shouldn't have gone back. I'll bet he dies because of it, like Charlotte. Not necessarily death by nosebleed, but he turned the wheel. He could never come back, right?
 
One thing we haven't discussed on here too much is the significance of the 72-hour window for them to return to the island. I was thinking about it more and more over the past week, and it helps that I work with a lady who loves the show and also does ministry. For all you Christians out there, you're probably already familiar with the belief that, following the death of Christ, "on the third day he rose again, in fulfillment of the scriptures." 72 hours is three days, and while I can't tell how much time has passed between Locke's suicide (some would say sacrifice) and their re-arrival on the island, it seems too coincidental to not hold merit.

If you think about it, they could take it all the way back and use the island to explain the resurrection of Christ. We know that one of the "portals" off the island sends people to the middle of Tunisia, which is in Africa and not too far from the holy land. What if there are other hot spots.

Also, my co-worker and I were talking about the ability of the island to teleport, and the fact that one of the portals comes up in Tunisia, which is the location of the ancienct city of Carthage. We're thinking this now explains the statue (the foot), which appears to be wearing an ancienct Roman sandal, which would make sense if it came from Carthage. And, if there are multiple "portals" around the world, it might explain a temple with heiroglyphics. Egypt is in Africa as well.

Of course, I'm still very certain it is the lost garden of Eden, and they're about to explain how what we believe to be religious fiction is actually scientifically feasible in the Lost universe. If you think about the fact that babies aren't supposed to be born on the island (with our obvious exceptions), it mirrors the "curse" God put on Adam and Eve when they were banished from Eden (the pain of childbirth).

And, come on, they throw us a huge bone by calling the couple in the cave Adam & Eve. Also, when you leave, you're not supposed to come back. Or at least not after you turn the wheel, so maybe it's sinful to do so.

I'm very excited that they're all back, because I think a lot of this shit is going to start falling into place, maybe even before this season ends.
 
[quote name='jollydwarf']

Regardless, Destiny is a central theme of the show, and I think it's pretty clear that the island isn't done with anyone who left it at the end of last season. Except maybe Ben. More and more, it seems like he's acting in blatant defiance of whatever intelligence or force controls the island. He probably shouldn't have gone back. I'll bet he dies because of it, like Charlotte. Not necessarily death by nosebleed, but he turned the wheel. He could never come back, right?[/QUOTE]

i think with ben going back to the island well see him become a villian again, like he was in season 2 and most of 3. in season 4 they really made him seem like a necessary evil, but now that everyones back i expect him to slowly fall into his old role. and that will, probably, result in his death sooner or later.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']i think with ben going back to the island well see him become a villian again, like he was in season 2 and most of 3. in season 4 they really made him seem like a necessary evil, but now that everyones back i expect him to slowly fall into his old role. and that will, probably, result in his death sooner or later.[/quote]

Which will come at the hands of a pissed-off Desmond on a sail boat.
 
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