First off, Kristoph's motivations have been highly misinterpreted. He wasn't pissed at Phoenix
until the case was turned over to him seven years ago, and this was
after he had already commissioned the forged evidence. Likewise, he wasn't pissed at Zak until the switch occurred, so his motivations to kill Vera and Drew were in place
before that. Which is scary no matter how you look at it - he was willing to get a man convicted
and kill two people simply to win a case.
This ties in with the second part everyone seems to be missing, which is killing Zak seven years later. Yeah, I guess he's still pissed about the slight, but that isn't his motive. Someone (I think Phoenix) clearly says that anyone who won the Grammarye case seven years ago would become wildly famous, which would put them into celebrity status instantly. They'd be set for life. Kristoph wanted that prestige, and had already set things in motion to secure it. Imagine defending any huge celebrity today - your name would become a household staple, much like the OJ Simpson trial so long ago.
(Which, actually, parallels one of the problems I always had in the original PW trilogy, which is that Phoenix - despite always winning these gigantic cases - is always A) still considered a hack to a degree/never given credit, and B) never seems to gain the positive notoriety that you'd think would come with his performances. You'd think that he'd be seen as a proper attorney and net high class cases/clients, but he's always talking about how he's poor and such. I guess this is a common thing in a lot of anime though (See Cowboy Bebop).)
Kristoph is actually really heinous when you think about it. He's clearly keeping poison on him to serve dirty deeds. He's watching people for seven years and adjusting his moves accordingly. He keeps in touch with forgers. He's not scared of performing infanticide anymore than homicide. You guys are all confusing him as nothing more than a proud dude annoyed that someone kicked his sorry ass off the case, but that's not the deal in the least.
Recall that Zak says that you can only really know a man when you see him in competition - he saw what was really there. Recall Vera's comments that she saw the Devil. Recall the black psyche-locks. Recall Brushel's paranoia. Kristoph is quite a monster, actually. It's just that he plays his cards so well and so close to his chest that you never see him break out of a calm, cool, collected mood. It's almost unfortunate that Phoenix nails his ass to the wall so early on, as Kristoph has the potential to really flex some devious plots were he out in the open.
Hell, it would be nice to think that during the seven years, he performed lots of crimes/murders/other acts, and that in the next game, continues to be intimately tied to cases Apollo will have to deal with. Maybe, then, we could finally see what's behind those black psyche-locks. I'm really anxious to see if those will come into play in future sequels.
As for case 4's "simplicity," I think you guys are really dividing in hopes of conquering here. I see a lot of people talking about how the investigation phase with Phoenix ruins the momentum and makes for a shortened, weak ending court room session.
Think about PW3 for a moment. Case 4, specifically. Maybe 10 minutes long. And yet the information found in it ties up the first and final cases entirely.
Now imagine that the case is the Mason system in the last case. It's an integral part of the case, but it's still wholly separate. In other words, if the flashback to PW3-4 had been placed into the final case (thus making PW3 have 4 cases total), I imagine people would have complained about it as well, saying it takes everything out of context and creates a situation where "one of these things is not like the other." Everyone seems so intent on saying the final part of the last case is so abysmal, and it's
because you're all sectioning everything out.
That's the problem I have with all of this "disappointment." You're dicing the final case up instead of taking it at face value as a complete entity. Now, I won't sit here and act like the case measures up to PW3-5, or potentially PW1-4/5, as those cases are all pretty incredible, but I think this case was very unique in its execution, and sets it apart from everything else. We're with a new cast on a new system in an established series. Of
course part of it needs to feel different from previous incarnations.
Tangentially, I really enjoyed using Phoenix during the case. I like that you're solving a current case, solving a past case, and giving him peace by discovering the truth to so many questions all at once. The entire dissertation I had about case 1 that I posted, for example, gets explained away easily, and that's just one example. Everyone is so bent on saying the case is a dud, but you're all dismissing what is learned during the case.
So say what you want about it, but it had a good pace, some neat elements, and tried to carve an entirely new history for new players (players as in the cast members of the game). And on that note, it succeeded very well.
A question I had about it, though, was
why Drew decided to finally use the stamp. Seems wildly out of character. I can't see him wanting to do it on purpose, as he knows it would upset his daughter. This almost points to suicide, really. Which would mean that when you go through those motions in court
disproving suicide, it might have always been the truth. I mean, maybe he somehow knew about the poison himself, and was actually sacrificing himself to save his daughter? It's possible.
As for dealings with Lamirior - I'm more surprised no one is questioning how she got her memory back in the three months between the third and fourth cases. That's a much larger mystery. Also, I think Beef asked about her involvement skewing the case, but that can be explained. Phoenix makes it clear that no jurist was involved in the
development of the case. That's a big point to make. She has no bearing on the case at all when you sit down and look at it. Plus, Phoenix might have figured out who she was before asking her to be a Jurist. Perhaps, then, when she was commissioned, she didn't have her memory back, but it returned
during the case. That actually explains my question I just asked, and makes the case much better crafted that you guys are giving it credit for.
I won't argue that it's a simple decision with the innocent/guilty thing, as it is. But it's the precedent that's being set here that is the big deal. Which is an interesting thing to consider - what if, in the next game, they use the Jurist system as a scoring mechanism? I.e., if you perform very well in court, you get a unanimous decision? That could alter the gameplay a
lot and even add replay value, especially if different dialogue/conclusions can be drawn based on how well you perform in court.
Some other things to discuss:
Zak ruining Phoenix's reputation in poker - You have to think about how Zak was certain he wouldn't be pronounced guilty in his trial. He had thought out the entire trial beforehand, and realized one of two things would happen. Either the forged evidence would fly and he'd be found not guilty (which means he was selling out Valant, which makes him....questionably
good as a person, really...and I especially think this is so because he probably knew about the fake evidence, having corroborated with Kristoph to help get it produced), or he'd be found guilty and then escape.
So, in Zak's mind, Phoenix - being the experienced attorney he is - wasn't going to screw it up. He had decisive evidence
and he had shown himself a good and effective man through his poker playing. Zak thought he was home free. But in the trial, we see the evidence getting called out. So Zak immediately knows he's going to have to escape, having already planned it with his daughter.
So he escapes.
That's your motivation. In his eyes, Phoenix failed and cause his exile, which also means he has to abandon his daughter. He's cheated out of remaining a hugely successful Grammarye for the rest of his life. And he knows the truth about the evidence, so he's probably watching his back for Kristoph. Perhaps worst of all, he imagines that Phoenix is a hack and is entirely to blame for everything. He waits the seven years and plots to destroy Phoenix's reputation (even though he'd already done so quite thoroughly) a second time.
There's probably something in there about how he knows Trucy is probably helping him win poker anyway, so maybe he's angry about that too.
Again, don't get the hate for Klavier. The final exchanges between him and his brother are pretty extraordinary. It's absolutely clear that Klavier doesn't
around when it comes to the truth, and he constantly pins down Kristoph's subtle-but-powerfully-effective argument tactics. Klavier is detecting the slightest deviation in his brother. That's something to commend.
The "No evidence" problem - really surprised that this becomes part of the game's mechanics. Someone mentioned that "this isn't realistic."
No part of this game series is realistic. And besides, there are
tons of cases that get decided one way or the other based on evidence or the lack thereof. So I think it actually fits in with reality based on that part alone, which is why jurors are used in the American legal system.
(On a side note, that's kind of a funny problem with the PW series - I noticed starting in PW2 that they repeatedly imply that the game takes place in the states as opposed to Japan, which is funny given the odd juxtaposition of Japanese culture and agents, such as the Kurain Village and ...."spirit dojo temple" from PW3-5. So you're telling me you're taking place in the USA, but your court system doesn't use jurors until now? Just make the setting in Japan, Capcom! You don't think we're that dumb, do you?)
Segways into next topic - the Jurist system. I think they call it "Jurist" because that sounds cooler than juror. Also, this makes me wonder what the 12 people are doing in the courtroom to begin with? They've been there this whole time - I mean you see them talking to each other, the judge has to bang his gavel to get order, etc. So these people are just....what, an audience? I guess so, even though that seems out of place. I guess that gives Klavier people to play to, though.
Perceive System - I like it, but .... does no one (in terms of the prosecution and judge) think it's weird that Apollo gets to use that as an effective means of discerning the truth? I did have a problem with that. I mean he says things like "Oh you are sweating, that means you are lying." It's a good system, and I like the eerieness of it, but they need to explain it better.
"Trucy knowing her dad is alive is bs." Why? She helped him escape, after all. And whose to say he isn't sending her letters every once and a while? Can't be hard to hide them from Phoenix, since he's kind of laid-back by that time. For all we know, she could have been informed behind the scenes on tons of things. He could also be feeding her secrets on magical routines and tricks in this manner also.
I think Magnifi wasn't thinking clearly when he sent the two notes to Zak and Valant. I think this because he obviously expected them to shoot the clown's forehead as a show of their loyalty. But if that's the case, he should have had a second clown in the room. If Valant walked in and already saw the clown shot, it sort of gives away the "puzzle" of the letter. I'd like to think Magnifi would have thought that through.
Funny quote from the judge when he hears about nail polish, and then starts talking about his wife's red nails - "She's been painting them this whole time!"
I was curious why Maya never showed up. Or, hell, Pearl. Maybe they are off spirit training/channeling. I actually thought it was really weird that Maya wasn't around during the case seven years ago.
I'm also surprised Edgeworth isn't around at all. I am thankful, however, that Lotta Hart continues to not be around. You're two for two, batting 500 right now on that, Capcom. Keep it up.
Regarding case 2 - Someone asked about how Wocky had a gun, but that "he couldn't because the girl had it." They say pretty clearly that two guns were removed from the mansion the night of the murder. The girl could have stolen the first one from Wocky, and he could have gotten the second.
