RPG Thread XIII-2: Tough Moms Always Die Young

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[quote name='Rodimus']My problem is if I enjoy a game halfway through I feel obligated to finish it, so I don't want to get rid of it. It's burned and blessed me in the past.[/QUOTE]

I have the exact same problem. I've currently got 8 games sitting around for that exact reason. Although after a year or so I finally admit I'll never finish them and trade them off.

Excluding Xenogears which I will never ever finish but most likely hold onto forever.

Oh and for the love of god finish Grandia.
 
[quote name='Rodimus']My problem is if I enjoy a game halfway through I feel obligated to finish it, so I don't want to get rid of it. It's burned and blessed me in the past.[/QUOTE]
I don't even know how you can start an RPG and want to continue with it, only to set it aside for a long time and play something else. I've done that with other types of games, but find it just about impossible with RPGs.
 
There'll be so many excess unsold copies that XIII-2 itself will eventually be a preorder bonus for Versus XIII. Holding out for that!
 
[quote name='hankmecrankme']I sold my RPG backlog. :cool:[/QUOTE]

You have more willpower than me.

[quote name='Rodimus']My problem is if I enjoy a game halfway through I feel obligated to finish it, so I don't want to get rid of it. It's burned and blessed me in the past.[/QUOTE]

Same here. I need to finish every game or watch every movie if I made it at least 25% of the way through it. Except for The Box, that movie was fuckin atrocious.

[quote name='panzerfaust']if i abandon a game it's likely because it wasn't interesting enough for me to finish it.[/QUOTE]

I abandon games all the time cuz other games come out that I go play instead. Or I just get bored for a while and want to pick up something new.

[quote name='zionoverfire']I have the exact same problem. I've currently got 8 games sitting around for that exact reason. Although after a year or so I finally admit I'll never finish them and trade them off.

Excluding Xenogears which I will never ever finish but most likely hold onto forever.[/QUOTE]

You have more willpower than me.

Finish Xenogears bro! That second disk is where it's at!

[quote name='blueshinra']I don't even know how you can start an RPG and want to continue with it, only to set it aside for a long time and play something else. I've done that with other types of games, but find it just about impossible with RPGs.[/QUOTE]

See my above responses. RPGs are the hardest thing to come back to though, specially those with slightly complicated battle mechanics. Then there's remembering the story and what you're currently doing, spells and tactics, equipment/inventory stuff. It's some scary shit.
 
[quote name='fwbweux']There'll be so many excess unsold copies that XIII-2 itself will eventually be a preorder bonus for Versus XIII. Holding out for that![/QUOTE]

yeah i don't why developers ship so many copies. Deus Ex had the same issue
 
[quote name='blueshinra']I don't even know how you can start an RPG and want to continue with it, only to set it aside for a long time and play something else. I've done that with other types of games, but find it just about impossible with RPGs.[/QUOTE]

The problem is that there are always other games to play, and some that don't require massive amounts of time to play.

Problem is, when I lay off an RPG for a while, it is hard to get back in. I need to work harder at getting back into it.
 
[quote name='panzerfaust']yeah i don't why developers ship so many copies. Deus Ex had the same issue[/QUOTE]

What I said was more to imply that XIII-2 was going to bomb, but this could be the case as well ;)
 
I think it'll sell decently, just not as well as XIII considering how many people hated it and it probably won't be a frontloaded seller. It's going to have to drop in price a few times before it has big numbers; it won't be an instant million-seller at $60 a pop like XIII.
 
considering how many people hated it
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this logic is a bit dangerous and i see it used in a lot of different situations. Final Fantasy has a huge casual market going for it, and any unrest you see on gaming boards accounts for about 0.23% of the market. if we go by all the angry nerds on forums then Square Enix should be in the gutter by now, or would have appeased the "masses" and remade all of their PSX games from the ground up for 360/PS3.

instead they're making a sequel to XIII -- because based on how well it was received, it's the most logical business move to make. they made a spin off for XII as well, another game that we would consider "hated." though believe it or not, the 5-6 million who grabbed FF12 weren't all on gaming boards pounding their chest, probably preaching about the greatness of FFVI and how they cried after the ghost train.

they don't really care what i think. there's a real world of gamers out there, we're just some junkies arguing about story lines and linearity while everyone else is eating Call of Duty for breakfast.
 
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[quote name='blueshinra']I don't even know how you can start an RPG and want to continue with it, only to set it aside for a long time and play something else. I've done that with other types of games, but find it just about impossible with RPGs.[/QUOTE]

It's difficult, but I've done it only a few times. The hardest was Nocturne. I got a good 50 hours in then let it sit for a year. Forced myself back in and ended up enjoying the hell out of it. I could'nt have done it without the guide holding my hand. Tales of the Abyss is another one I let sit for over a year, but picked it back up and became my second favorite Tales of game.

As for XIII 2 I'm intrested to see how it sells. I wont be participating with the numbers but I am curious on how well Squenix has a grasp on the casual gamer now. I think the the FF name is still a big draw and they always do kick ass marketing. As much as I hate XIII I think the sequel will still sell.
 
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probably a third as much as the original, a lot of factors go into the hype train. as we've seen, when an FF pops up for the first time on a new console (i.e. FFVII, FFX), it's when the results are the largest. then some people will hang around and others won't.

XIII-2 probably isn't as taxing to create seeing as they have a lot of elements already down, so based on the 6 million or so who bought XIII, a cash-in sequel is a logical next step in order to squeeze out whatever's left.
 
[quote name='panzerfaust']this logic is a bit dangerous and i see it used in a lot of different situations. Final Fantasy has a huge casual market going for it, and any unrest you see on gaming boards accounts for about 0.23% of the market. if we go by all the angry nerds on forums then Square Enix should be in the gutter by now, or would have appeased the "masses" and remade all of their PSX games from the ground up for 360/PS3. t

instead their making a sequel to XIII -- because based on how well it was received, it's the most logical business move to make.

they don't really care i think. there's a real world of gamers out there, we're just some junkies arguing about story lines and linearity while everyone else is eating Call of Duty for breakfast.[/QUOTE]

This is entirely anecdotal, but I had several friends who ranged from "casual" RPG fans to non-RPG fans purchase FFXIII at release. Opinions were mixed. A few enjoyed it, some hated it (one only made it a couple of hours in and immediately traded it back into Gamestop toward MLB The Show '10), some tried to keep up but were confounded by the Paradigm Shift system or a particular boss and had to quit. It wasn't terribly dissimilar to the range of reactions we saw online, so there's no reason to think that gamers who aren't vocal on internet forums were any more monolithic in their opinion on the game than people like us were. Perhaps not so intense in their dislike, but I don't necessarily think that a large majority of casual FF/RPG/etc. fans who purchased XIII will be hyped for XIII-2.

Keep in mind that I think that XIII was more well-received among hardcore gamers in Japan than elsewhere, so I wouldn't be surprised if this sequel is primarily targeted at them with any NA/EU sales just being gravy on top of sales to the core audience. You have to wonder, for instance, why Serah was chosen to be the main character when virtually no one seems to be anything other than ambivalent toward her. The Japanese consider her moe or whatever, so maybe that's evidence for who the target audience for XIII-2 is. I have no idea at this point.
 
[quote name='Indignate']

You have more willpower than me.

Finish Xenogears bro! That second disk is where it's at!
[/QUOTE]

Maybe next decade.:lol:
 
that's a good point too.

like X-2, XIII-2 definitely seems like a load of fanservice and an excuse to have Serah on the cover and Lightning in a new outfit, and the game's design seems to be pandering towards those who want to explore, grind, and collect items, monsters, etc...

and then there will be that casual market (which probably is composed of more female gamers than we expect it does -- I have anecdotes of my own). And truly, i hardly consider any of the mainline FFs to be even close to poorly constructed games (well I've playeed IV and on, to clarify), and all are very pretty, have a lot going for them in the sound and character design department, and overall are emotionally engaging in ways casuals can latch onto. XIV was a bomb though, if you want a real example ;)

fundamental design and layout is something I think all of the FFs lack considerably in (perhaps XII has been the best), but that's always been more of a western value while the east likes to tug at the heart strings and spend all their time composing music.
 
[quote name='panzerfaust']probably a third as much as the original, a lot of factors go into the hype train. as we've seen, when an FF pops up for the first time on a new console (i.e. FFVII, FFX), it's when the results are the largest. then some people will hang around and others won't.[/QUOTE]

I think that being a sequel is going to hurt it a lot more than simply not being first, I'd say that FFVIII and FFIX did fine following FFVII because they had nothing to do with FFVII.

Basically being a sequel is going to mostly come with a prerequisite that you finished the first game, which I don't know if you've seen some of the completion numbers that sometimes come out for longer games, but they are awful (for instance Mass Effect 2 only has around a 50% completion rate, and ME2 still isn't that long or hard). So right there you've probably got less than 50% of the original 6 million who are likely to purchase the game.

Next, being a sequel, especially one that seems to stay somewhat similar to the original probably isn't going to attract too many people who were turned off by the original (especially again when you probably need to play the first one to enjoy the story). Now I know you'll (as you already have) say how that group is probably a minority but obviously those people exist in some quantity, and they probably aren't going to buy a sequel.

I think you are right though, this is basically easy money for SE. Recycle the assets and the engine and use it to make another game, maybe they'll have to have artists do a bit and have a designer come up with a couple new ideas for combat, but all the hard work is already done. Then they sell it to fanboys/fangirls of the original, and as long as the minimal amount of work (as compared to making another full game) to make what could be considered an "expansion" of the original game offsets the costs they win.
 
good points as well.

sometimes we forget just how casual the casual market is. A 5 hour game like Heavenly Sword may take a lot gamers months to get through, or be abandoned midway. not because they take their time, but because they hardly game.

and when they do game, they want to win immediately. hence the age Call of Duty.
 
[quote name='panzerfaust']and when they do game, they want to win immediately. hence the age Call of Duty.[/QUOTE]

Maybe the answer to FFXIII-2's potential sales woes is simply to slather red jelly all over the screen when the party's health is low. Pretty much every game that does that ends up selling millions.
 
[quote name='TheLongshot']The problem is that there are always other games to play, and some that don't require massive amounts of time to play.[/QUOTE]
This is why I tend to play two or more games at a time ;) It's nice to have a platformer or action game on hand in between RPG-playing sessions.

[quote name='Rodimus']It's difficult, but I've done it only a few times. The hardest was Nocturne. I got a good 50 hours in then let it sit for a year. Forced myself back in and ended up enjoying the hell out of it.[/QUOTE]
Nocturne was the closest I came to setting aside an RPG for a long time, but even though I had a good excuse at the time (moving cross-country), a big part of it was that it didn't really grab me. Once I committed to beating it, however, I stuck to it.

[quote name='icebeast']I think that being a sequel is going to hurt it a lot more than simply not being first, I'd say that FFVIII and FFIX did fine following FFVII because they had nothing to do with FFVII.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't in the fandom at the time, but apparently some FFVII fans were annoyed that FFVIII wasn't a direct sequel!

Of course, FF fans will complain about anything and everything...
 
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Yea, RPGs are something you have to consistently play. If you walk away from them for too long, you forget where you are and almost have to start over!
 
[quote name='panzerfaust']good points as well.

sometimes we forget just how casual the casual market is. A 5 hour game like Heavenly Sword may take a lot gamers months to get through, or be abandoned midway. not because they take their time, but because they hardly game.

and when they do game, they want to win immediately. hence the age Call of Duty.[/QUOTE]

I don't understand how you could consider something like CoD to be "casual". Most fans play it for hundreds of hours for an entire year. Even Black Ops is better than FF XIII; I don't care if it's a different genre.
 
I don't see how it's win immediately either. The campaigns in CoD seem to be around 4-5 hours which isn't bad when the main appeal of the game for a lot of people is the multiplayer.

A lot of the CoD hate doesn't seem to be anything more than hating it because it's popular.

But I disagree about any CoD being better than FFXIII :p
 
All this talk about not finishing games reminded me that I'm at the save point prior to the last boss in SMT: Digital Devil Saga 2. I think it's been almost a year since I popped that game in.

Other games are going have to wait for the meantime since Dark Souls just came out
 
[quote name='willardhaven']I don't understand how you could consider something like CoD to be "casual". Most fans play it for hundreds of hours for an entire year. Even Black Ops is better than FF XIII; I don't care if it's a different genre.[/QUOTE]

that fact that i could pick up CoD and dominate entirely, after years of not having playing multiplayer FPS, is why i consider it a casual experience. it's like the gamers now are re-living what was going on 10 years ago with Quake, Tribes, UT, and Counter-Strike, except now they are doing it with a game that hands them victory in a much easier fashion.

and i don't really agree with comparing shooters to an RPG, even though FFXIII did hurt your family it doesn't make a ton of sense to compare it against an entirely different genre.

maybe when we see ME3's multiplayer when can makes some Gears of War comparisons.
 
[quote name='willardhaven']I don't understand how you could consider something like CoD to be "casual". Most fans play it for hundreds of hours for an entire year. Even Black Ops is better than FF XIII; I don't care if it's a different genre.[/QUOTE]
"Casual" = an easy insult for any game or genre that doesn't happen to be your favorite. I'm not the world's biggest COD fan, but they are well-crafted games with a lot of depth and value for those who choose to pursue it. Preferring Final Fantasy XIII to Black Ops, or JRPGs to FPS in general, doesn't make you a better or smarter gamer.
 
Casual is an actual game category or description, though, not just an insult (though the way it was used above is just an insult). Games that are extremely simply with few rules and few controls are casual games. 99% of mobile phone games probably fit into this category. Doesn't mean they're not fun, but it is a useful way to describe a game if we all use it the same way. Games like Angry Birds and Bejeweled are classic examples. CoD and JRPGs are not, obviously.
 
[quote name='Backlash']Games like Angry Birds and Bejeweled are classic examples. CoD and JRPGs are not, obviously.[/QUOTE]
And yet the word is thrown around all the time to describe anything and everything, with the flimsiest justification. It's become a meaningless term, only good for elitist arguments about what kind of games are acceptable for "real" gamers to enjoy.
 
CoD is indeed a very well made game, and i'd consider both it and FFXIII casual experiences, but i suppose we all have our own definition.
 
[quote name='panzerfaust']CoD is indeed a very well made game, and i'd consider both it and FFXIII casual experiences, but i suppose we all have our own definition.[/QUOTE]
See? I'm right again. Nobody could've predicted that Dr. Grant would suddenly jump out of a moving vehicle. And here I am now, sitting by myself, talking to myself. That's chaos theory.
 
[quote name='Ryuukishi']And yet the word is thrown around all the time to describe anything and everything, with the flimsiest justification. It's become a meaningless term, only good for elitist arguments about what kind of games are acceptable for "real" gamers to enjoy.[/QUOTE]
yes! i agree!

then people complain that these "games that i don't like(casual games)" take away "valuable resources" to create "games that i like. (games for the hardcore)"

because if they didn't make angry birds i would get dragon quest 11 already! yeah right!
 
I'm not hardcore or casual, cause I'm a fuckin' wizard

wizard11.jpg


Not sure if I like buying Persona in P2 with cards. I miss fusion.
 
[quote name='roger watersmelon']You mistyped "rad."[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I'm getting too old . . . couldn't remember the line. If you'll excuse me, I'm going to go rock on my porch for awhile playing Super Glove Ball.

As for FFXIII-2, that's a weird set of pre-order bonuses; one physical object, one new "level," and one costume? If I were preordering it would seem like a no-brainer.
 
3 Days without a post.

I have made it down to B14F in Etrian Odyssey 3 though. Now to see if I can take down the FOE on this level.
 
Yeah, I'm kind of surprised at how long this thread's been inactive.

I think I'm still on B11F in EO3... either that or B12F. Haven't played in awhile, in part since I felt I had been neglecting Rogue Galaxy. I'm currently in Chapter 5 of that game; it's been steadily getting better.
 
lol well I'm flying through Demon's Souls right now, it really does have a hard time keeping up with the player's increasing power -- i'd say the veil of brutality has been fully lifted.

will probably wait on Dark Souls until it's around $30. the bosses looked much more interesting, how are the fights?
 
[quote name='panzerfaust']lol well I'm flying through Demon's Souls right now, it really does have a hard time keeping up with the player's increasing power -- i'd say the veil of brutality has been fully lifted.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, until New Game Plus :twisted:

Dark Souls seems pretty similar, maybe a bit harder. Totally way more open and non-linear, which some people are loving and some are hating. I like it.
 
[quote name='Backlash']Yeah, until New Game Plus :twisted:

Dark Souls seems pretty similar, maybe a bit harder. Totally way more open and non-linear, which some people are loving and some are hating. I like it.[/QUOTE]

That's the one thing I'm worried about. It seems like it might be harder to get from place to place without a central Nexus to select levels from, but surely there has to be some kind of fast transport option. I wouldn't know, I've been on media blackout on this game for months. I've already secured a used copy from another CAG so fortunately I'll be playing this in a couple of days even though my Amazon copy still refuses to ship.
 
[quote name='fwbweux']I've already secured a used copy from another CAG[/QUOTE]
Chewed him up and spat him out that fast, huh? :lol:
 
[quote name='fwbweux']That's the one thing I'm worried about. It seems like it might be harder to get from place to place without a central Nexus to select levels from, but surely there has to be some kind of fast transport option. [/QUOTE]

It seems to mostly operate on the principle of opening up shortcuts, similar to how Demon's Souls worked in several of the levels. Later I think you do get an option for some sort of limited warping around between bonfires. I'm not too far yet. Getting around is a bit more painful if you rest at bonfires a lot (like I tend to), because that causes most enemies to respawn.
 
[quote name='Ryuukishi']Chewed him up and spat him out that fast, huh? :lol:[/QUOTE]

No comment :cool:

[quote name='Backlash']It seems to mostly operate on the principle of opening up shortcuts, similar to how Demon's Souls worked in several of the levels. Later I think you do get an option for some sort of limited warping around between bonfires. I'm not too far yet. Getting around is a bit more painful if you rest at bonfires a lot (like I tend to), because that causes most enemies to respawn.[/QUOTE]

Uuuuuugh, not being able to rest at bonfires as much as I want is going to mess with my game-saving OCD. I can see it now, but such is the fate of someone who accepts the Dark Souls challenge. I can live with it if there's some ability to fast travel, which fortunately it sounds like there is.
 
Stupid Amazon FSSS taking forever to even ship, let alone transit time. Won't have Dark Souls till the 12th. Still haven't finished Xenoblade either, since I've put in ~20 hours overtime this week...
 
[quote name='fwbweux']
Uuuuuugh, not being able to rest at bonfires as much as I want is going to mess with my game-saving OCD. I can see it now, but such is the fate of someone who accepts the Dark Souls challenge. I can live with it if there's some ability to fast travel, which fortunately it sounds like there is.[/QUOTE]

Ha, I rest at one every chance I get, and it's still not as much as I want :) I'm trying not to look in guides / The Internets too much, so I have no idea what the fast travel really consists of or when in the game you get it. I'm not expecting much.
 
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