The Declining Value Of Your College Degree...
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SMOOV
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Any finance majors or grads in here? If so what types of jobs do you guys have or would like to have? And how many of you like what you do? I'm just wondering cause I will be finishing up my upper division business classes soon and wanted to see what some cags think about finance.
[quote name='D_Icon']A lot of smart people in here.
If I'm gonna get a B.S. in Psychology what kind of jobs can I expect to find? Someone told me that to really get into the field of Psychology I would need a higher degree than a bachelors.[/quote]
My girlfriend has her 4-year in Psychology, and so far she has worked as an "in-home care coordinator" at a group home for schizophrenic people. She just started a job doing social work at a place called family resources which is like middle man to DHS and the parents. Tells them and teaches them stuff like don't throw your kids down the stairs and stuff. Pay is decent, but you have to want to make a difference and really have to care about people.
If I'm gonna get a B.S. in Psychology what kind of jobs can I expect to find? Someone told me that to really get into the field of Psychology I would need a higher degree than a bachelors.[/quote]
My girlfriend has her 4-year in Psychology, and so far she has worked as an "in-home care coordinator" at a group home for schizophrenic people. She just started a job doing social work at a place called family resources which is like middle man to DHS and the parents. Tells them and teaches them stuff like don't throw your kids down the stairs and stuff. Pay is decent, but you have to want to make a difference and really have to care about people.
What does everyone think about foreign language degrees? I'm in my senior year of my BFA in Graphic Design and I'm considering going back to college after I graduate to study Japanese. I'm trying to decide if it would be best to get a second full bachelor's degree, or if I should go for an associates in Japanese, or skip it all together and study independently.
It's generally very, very difficult to gain admissions into a good school as a post-bac. Not only do you need good credentials, but you need a good reason. I know at UW Seattle, of the 40,000 students, 200 are post-bac. The competition for those 200 spots is fierce.
Just take classes at a community college. You can do two years part time and be fairly fluent. It'll be cheaper, and likely every bit as good.
Just take classes at a community college. You can do two years part time and be fairly fluent. It'll be cheaper, and likely every bit as good.
fatherofcaitlyn
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For foreign languages, you need to move to the native land.
Total immersion in a language and culture is the only way to learn it thoroughly.
If you just need to translate text, there are computer programs that can do most of that.
Total immersion in a language and culture is the only way to learn it thoroughly.
If you just need to translate text, there are computer programs that can do most of that.
fatherofcaitlyn
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[quote name='Koggit']It's generally very, very difficult to gain admissions into a good school as a post-bac. Not only do you need good credentials, but you need a good reason. I know at UW Seattle, of the 40,000 students, 200 are post-bac. The competition for those 200 spots is fierce.
Just take classes at a community college. You can do two years part time and be fairly fluent. It'll be cheaper, and likely every bit as good.[/quote]
UW Seattle tries to keep people out looking to get a second BA or BS?
Just take classes at a community college. You can do two years part time and be fairly fluent. It'll be cheaper, and likely every bit as good.[/quote]
UW Seattle tries to keep people out looking to get a second BA or BS?
zionoverfire
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[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']UW Seattle tries to keep people out looking to get a second BA or BS?[/quote]
Yes, for some reason colleges assume that if you already have a degree you should be going into grad school, which means it's sometimes easier to get into a grad program you aren't qualified for and then take the prereq. undergrad classes.
Anyhow, college degree value is now more than ever based off what you majored in and your experience. A degree by itself is pretty worthless but a degree in engineering/business/the good sciences will an internship or less so prof. assisted research and Teaching Assistant work can net you a job out of college with decent pay.
Yes, for some reason colleges assume that if you already have a degree you should be going into grad school, which means it's sometimes easier to get into a grad program you aren't qualified for and then take the prereq. undergrad classes.
Anyhow, college degree value is now more than ever based off what you majored in and your experience. A degree by itself is pretty worthless but a degree in engineering/business/the good sciences will an internship or less so prof. assisted research and Teaching Assistant work can net you a job out of college with decent pay.
JolietJake
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I wouldn't say a foreign language degree is a waste of time, in business at least. Get a job at a business that deals with a lot of non English speakers Many businesses have offices all over the world and do business in many different countries.
For marketability, i'd say learn Arabic. Businesses need Arabic translators.
For marketability, i'd say learn Arabic. Businesses need Arabic translators.
[quote name='JolietJake']I wouldn't say a foreign language degree is a waste of time, in business at least. Get a job at a business that deals with a lot of non English speakers Many businesses have offices all over the world and do business in many different countries.
For marketability, i'd say learn Arabic. Businesses need Arabic translators.[/QUOTE]
It's not a waste of time, but a person who speaks Arabic and has an MBA, a degree in finance or something else related to business will get the job in a second over someone with just a degree in Arabic. That was my earlier point.
Knowing a foreign language helps for sure, but I'm not sure majoring it it does much good unless you just purely want a translator job--and even those you'd be more competitive knowing the langugage but having a degree related to the field you'd be working in.
For marketability, i'd say learn Arabic. Businesses need Arabic translators.[/QUOTE]
It's not a waste of time, but a person who speaks Arabic and has an MBA, a degree in finance or something else related to business will get the job in a second over someone with just a degree in Arabic. That was my earlier point.
Knowing a foreign language helps for sure, but I'm not sure majoring it it does much good unless you just purely want a translator job--and even those you'd be more competitive knowing the langugage but having a degree related to the field you'd be working in.
Dead of Knight
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[quote name='ananag112']Is engineering considered a hard major? There are only two girls in my graduating class.[/QUOTE]
It is considered one of of the hardest by most people.
It is considered one of of the hardest by most people.
JolietJake
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It's funny, there was this girl at my school who was an engineering major, yet when she took C# (some elective, she didn't have to take it), she could barely manage. Granted, engineering and computer science aren't the same things, but they're closely related.
JolietJake
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[quote name='dmaul1114']It's not a waste of time, but a person who speaks Arabic and has an MBA, a degree in finance or something else related to business will get the job in a second over someone with just a degree in Arabic. That was my earlier point.
Knowing a foreign language helps for sure, but I'm not sure majoring it it does much good unless you just purely want a translator job--and even those you'd be more competitive knowing the langugage but having a degree related to the field you'd be working in.[/quote]
I've heard the government is pretty interested in Arabic translators, funny that.:lol:
Knowing a foreign language helps for sure, but I'm not sure majoring it it does much good unless you just purely want a translator job--and even those you'd be more competitive knowing the langugage but having a degree related to the field you'd be working in.[/quote]
I've heard the government is pretty interested in Arabic translators, funny that.:lol:
It's not that unusual. The engineers and other highly math involved majors often had troubles in the humanities courses I was in due to the sheer amount of writing we did. Usually about 10-20 pages of papers a week. I wouldn't expect to go into their courses and do well either.
JolietJake
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Yeah, but the humanities and engineering aren't even related, engineering and computer science do have some links to one another. I mean, engineering students here have to take FORTRAN after all.
Gothic Walrus
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[quote name='JolietJake']It's funny, there was this girl at my school who was an engineering major, yet when she took C# (some elective, she didn't have to take it), she could barely manage. Granted, engineering and computer science aren't the same things, but they're closely related.[/QUOTE]
Not at all - if you've got a degree like chemical engineering or mechanical engineering, you won't need to program, and you won't need those skills. Logical thinking, maybe, but programming demands a very specialized version of that.
My old roommate was in nuclear engineering, and he had problems getting started in our programming class. When you throw out all of the physics, calc, and science that most other majors use and replace them with an arbitrary ruleset, people are going to have problems. For most engineers I've known, that's exactly how it went. I probably would've had the same problems too, but I've had a lot of practice programming over the years, and it DID make a difference.
Not at all - if you've got a degree like chemical engineering or mechanical engineering, you won't need to program, and you won't need those skills. Logical thinking, maybe, but programming demands a very specialized version of that.
My old roommate was in nuclear engineering, and he had problems getting started in our programming class. When you throw out all of the physics, calc, and science that most other majors use and replace them with an arbitrary ruleset, people are going to have problems. For most engineers I've known, that's exactly how it went. I probably would've had the same problems too, but I've had a lot of practice programming over the years, and it DID make a difference.
JolietJake
Banned
[quote name='Gothic Walrus']Not at all - if you've got a degree like chemical engineering or mechanical engineering, you won't need to program, and you won't need those skills. Logical thinking, maybe, but programming demands a very specialized version of that.
My old roommate was in nuclear engineering, and he had problems getting started in our programming class. When you throw out all of the physics, calc, and science that most other majors use and replace them with an arbitrary ruleset, people are going to have problems. For most engineers I've known, that's exactly how it went. I probably would've had the same problems too, but I've had a lot of practice programming over the years, and it DID make a difference.[/quote]
Well like i said, FORTRAN is a programming language. It's used in engineering, If you can handle that, C# shouldn't be a problem.
My old roommate was in nuclear engineering, and he had problems getting started in our programming class. When you throw out all of the physics, calc, and science that most other majors use and replace them with an arbitrary ruleset, people are going to have problems. For most engineers I've known, that's exactly how it went. I probably would've had the same problems too, but I've had a lot of practice programming over the years, and it DID make a difference.[/quote]
Well like i said, FORTRAN is a programming language. It's used in engineering, If you can handle that, C# shouldn't be a problem.
It seems the computer science students typically have programming experience, either self-taught or previous classes, while the engineering students do not (although they'll sometimes have experience with MATLAB, Mathematica, etc, but that's not really similar).
It's like the bioengineering majors, who usually struggle with the bio classes since they're pitted against all the bio/pre-med students. The bio students have already taken anatomy, chemistry, etc, so even though the material in the bio class may be new it's easier for them to digest. They're more experienced in that field than the engineering students, so it's a little easier for them.
Engineering undergrad is very interdisciplinary. It combines all physical sciences with math, technical writing and programming.
[quote name='lordwow']It's not that unusual. The engineers and other highly math involved majors often had troubles in the humanities courses I was in due to the sheer amount of writing we did. Usually about 10-20 pages of papers a week. I wouldn't expect to go into their courses and do well either.[/QUOTE]
That's weird... at my school, it's universally accepted that all humanities/social sciences are much easier than the engineering courses. In fact, I talked to my adviser today, I was concerned that my fall schedule may be too rigorous, he suggested I nix the physics course in favor of a VLPA (humanities) or I&S (social sciences). That's the common solution among all engineering and physics majors: if you need to lighten a load but stay full time, take out a tough class in favor of a VLPA or I&S.
It's like the bioengineering majors, who usually struggle with the bio classes since they're pitted against all the bio/pre-med students. The bio students have already taken anatomy, chemistry, etc, so even though the material in the bio class may be new it's easier for them to digest. They're more experienced in that field than the engineering students, so it's a little easier for them.
Engineering undergrad is very interdisciplinary. It combines all physical sciences with math, technical writing and programming.
[quote name='lordwow']It's not that unusual. The engineers and other highly math involved majors often had troubles in the humanities courses I was in due to the sheer amount of writing we did. Usually about 10-20 pages of papers a week. I wouldn't expect to go into their courses and do well either.[/QUOTE]
That's weird... at my school, it's universally accepted that all humanities/social sciences are much easier than the engineering courses. In fact, I talked to my adviser today, I was concerned that my fall schedule may be too rigorous, he suggested I nix the physics course in favor of a VLPA (humanities) or I&S (social sciences). That's the common solution among all engineering and physics majors: if you need to lighten a load but stay full time, take out a tough class in favor of a VLPA or I&S.
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The Mana Knight
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[quote name='lordwow']It's not that unusual. The engineers and other highly math involved majors often had troubles in the humanities courses I was in due to the sheer amount of writing we did. Usually about 10-20 pages of papers a week. I wouldn't expect to go into their courses and do well either.[/QUOTE]I agree in ways.
I'm in Engineer, I have crazy strong math, programming (OMG I love computer programming. I LOVE programming ANYTIME of the day. I just love finding a solution for complex program), Physics, etc. skills. I actually got an A in Psychology, Sociology, and History, but I REALLY struggled in Mass Communication & Society (too much reading, I SUCK at reading), and somewhat in speech classes (well, I just always got a high B, never an A).
[quote name='Koggit']It seems the computer science students typically have programming experience, either self-taught or previous classes, while the engineering students do not (although they'll sometimes have experience with MATLAB, Mathematica, etc, but that's not really similar).[/QUOTE]OMG, you said the magic word. I heart MATLAB. When a Professor of mine said we'd be using MATLAB for a lab, I jumped out of my seat with excitement. Pretty much everyone in my class still remembers that today (it was over 3 years ago). I use to enjoy doing MATLAB work on Friday nights. I remember programming my entire Physics homework into MATLAB (where people can just enter their numbers), so people would stop calling me asking for individual Physics help.
I'm in Engineer, I have crazy strong math, programming (OMG I love computer programming. I LOVE programming ANYTIME of the day. I just love finding a solution for complex program), Physics, etc. skills. I actually got an A in Psychology, Sociology, and History, but I REALLY struggled in Mass Communication & Society (too much reading, I SUCK at reading), and somewhat in speech classes (well, I just always got a high B, never an A).
[quote name='Koggit']It seems the computer science students typically have programming experience, either self-taught or previous classes, while the engineering students do not (although they'll sometimes have experience with MATLAB, Mathematica, etc, but that's not really similar).[/QUOTE]OMG, you said the magic word. I heart MATLAB. When a Professor of mine said we'd be using MATLAB for a lab, I jumped out of my seat with excitement. Pretty much everyone in my class still remembers that today (it was over 3 years ago). I use to enjoy doing MATLAB work on Friday nights. I remember programming my entire Physics homework into MATLAB (where people can just enter their numbers), so people would stop calling me asking for individual Physics help.
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willardhaven
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Got a B.A. in Sociology, I'm hosed.
It seems like a degree is what you make of it though, so I'll give it the old post-college try.
It seems like a degree is what you make of it though, so I'll give it the old post-college try.
[quote name='willardhaven']Got a B.A. in Sociology, I'm hosed.
It seems like a degree is what you make of it though, so I'll give it the old post-college try.[/QUOTE]
There are tons of things you could do with a sociology degree. You could get in nonprofit sector or government jobs. The pay isnt going to be high but there are lots of opportunities.
It seems like a degree is what you make of it though, so I'll give it the old post-college try.[/QUOTE]
There are tons of things you could do with a sociology degree. You could get in nonprofit sector or government jobs. The pay isnt going to be high but there are lots of opportunities.
[quote name='The Mana Knight']I agree in ways.
I'm in Engineer, I have crazy strong math, programming (OMG I love computer programming. I LOVE programming ANYTIME of the day. I just love finding a solution for complex program), Physics, etc. skills. I actually got an A in Psychology, Sociology, and History, but I REALLY struggled in Mass Communication & Society (too much ready, I SUCK at reading), and somewhat in speech classes (well, I just always got a high B, never an A).
[/QUOTE]
Good call Mana. I forgot about Reading, that is definitely huge in Comm classes as well. Writing is a big part of it, but I can't tell you how many research articles I had to read before even sitting down to write the article. It's a skill that you can improve with repetition though.
Luckily, I did really well in Public speaking, but I've never had a problem in front of audiences.
[quote name='moojuice']Dear god, so many people in Comm classes are idiots. I wouldn't even know where to start.[/QUOTE]
Ya, I agree with this. It was honestly painful in some of my comm courses. Especially when you go into a class like TV or Movie analysis and no one has seen movies like the Godfather, or watched TV shows that aren't the new reality shows, or played a single video game.
I'm in Engineer, I have crazy strong math, programming (OMG I love computer programming. I LOVE programming ANYTIME of the day. I just love finding a solution for complex program), Physics, etc. skills. I actually got an A in Psychology, Sociology, and History, but I REALLY struggled in Mass Communication & Society (too much ready, I SUCK at reading), and somewhat in speech classes (well, I just always got a high B, never an A).
[/QUOTE]
Good call Mana. I forgot about Reading, that is definitely huge in Comm classes as well. Writing is a big part of it, but I can't tell you how many research articles I had to read before even sitting down to write the article. It's a skill that you can improve with repetition though.
Luckily, I did really well in Public speaking, but I've never had a problem in front of audiences.
[quote name='moojuice']Dear god, so many people in Comm classes are idiots. I wouldn't even know where to start.[/QUOTE]
Ya, I agree with this. It was honestly painful in some of my comm courses. Especially when you go into a class like TV or Movie analysis and no one has seen movies like the Godfather, or watched TV shows that aren't the new reality shows, or played a single video game.
The Mana Knight
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[quote name='lordwow']Good call Mana. I forgot about Reading, that is definitely huge in Comm classes as well. Writing is a big part of it, but I can't tell you how many research articles I had to read before even sitting down to write the article. It's a skill that you can improve with repetition though.
Luckily, I did really well in Public speaking, but I've never had a problem in front of audiences.[/quote]I had a typo, where I meant to say reading (not ready). Anyway, while taking Mass Communication & Society over the summer (It was a 4 week class), we talked about interesting things, but we had a test every week and quiz everyday there wasn't a test. Every night we had a reading assignment, and our quizzes/tests were over reading/lectures. My problem is that if I read something, I completely forget everything I read (low reading comprehension level). I just can't read stuff and remember it well. Mostly, I'm all about memorizing terms (which is why I did well on Latin/Greek word tests) and math problems. I did worse on the SAT Verbal than probably every CAG out there.
Let's say in H.S., I did really well in public speaking because I wanted to be a TV/Radio Broadcaster. Once I got to college, where I didn't know most of the audience, I was a bit nervous. What killed me mostly in speech classes was not doing too well on the written test (because I sucked at reading and memorizing stuff). If it weren't for the test during the two Public Speaking classes I took, I'd have an A.
I tried to take an interviewing COM class (I already had enough credits), but it gave me a hard time because I'd have to actually interview a person in real life I'm not related to (yuck), do interviews for a grade (on both sides, yuck), and the test/homework were not fun, so I dropped out (I didn't know a single person in the class, had me even more nervous).
Luckily, I did really well in Public speaking, but I've never had a problem in front of audiences.[/quote]I had a typo, where I meant to say reading (not ready). Anyway, while taking Mass Communication & Society over the summer (It was a 4 week class), we talked about interesting things, but we had a test every week and quiz everyday there wasn't a test. Every night we had a reading assignment, and our quizzes/tests were over reading/lectures. My problem is that if I read something, I completely forget everything I read (low reading comprehension level). I just can't read stuff and remember it well. Mostly, I'm all about memorizing terms (which is why I did well on Latin/Greek word tests) and math problems. I did worse on the SAT Verbal than probably every CAG out there.
Let's say in H.S., I did really well in public speaking because I wanted to be a TV/Radio Broadcaster. Once I got to college, where I didn't know most of the audience, I was a bit nervous. What killed me mostly in speech classes was not doing too well on the written test (because I sucked at reading and memorizing stuff). If it weren't for the test during the two Public Speaking classes I took, I'd have an A.
I tried to take an interviewing COM class (I already had enough credits), but it gave me a hard time because I'd have to actually interview a person in real life I'm not related to (yuck), do interviews for a grade (on both sides, yuck), and the test/homework were not fun, so I dropped out (I didn't know a single person in the class, had me even more nervous).
Ah. Our Comm department splits our major into multiple fields or concentrations. Almost all of my classes had to do with media and media theory. But, I did take some classes in rhetoric (which include public speaking), which were really good, because our prof was the guy CNN has on after speeches to analyze them, so he's pretty cool and knowledgeable. One of the other tracks was called Org. Comm, which was more what you're describing (like all business communication, interviewing, etc) and I hated that crap. We had to take like the intro courses to each type and then we got a concentration on our degree, so my degree is technically Communication Studies - Media Studies.
There are public speaking requirements for each of my degrees, and I'm terrified of them. For my engineering degree it's part of a TC (technical communications) class that's part writing and part presenting, and for physics it's part of the independent study requirement (do independent research then present on it at a symposium). They're about two years away but I still dread them. Most students fear the senior project, I fear talking in front of large audiences.
The Mana Knight
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[quote name='Koggit']There are public speaking requirements for each of my degrees, and I'm terrified of them. For my engineering degree it's part of a TC (technical communications) class that's part writing and part presenting, and for physics it's part of the independent study requirement (do independent research then present on it at a symposium). They're about two years away but I still dread them. Most students fear the senior project, I fear talking in front of large audiences.[/QUOTE]You should see my blog entry on my Senior Project (I wrote it recently).
Anyway, for me my biggest fears were:
-Calculus II (although I was good at math, I heard about how hard it was, and since I was played in a very good class, I was on the lower side of the curve).
-Project Management & Development (building a robot with a group).
-Senior Design (Biggest fear of all, because you must make it work to graduate and you had to present it in front of faculty, HUGE worry, but thankfully I got through).
I'd say Senior design was my biggest fear, but it also involved speaking in front of faculty, which really freaked me out. I'm so glad it's over with. If I know the people, speaking in front of people isn't hard, but when I do not know anyone, then I'm scared.
Anyway, for me my biggest fears were:
-Calculus II (although I was good at math, I heard about how hard it was, and since I was played in a very good class, I was on the lower side of the curve).
-Project Management & Development (building a robot with a group).
-Senior Design (Biggest fear of all, because you must make it work to graduate and you had to present it in front of faculty, HUGE worry, but thankfully I got through).
I'd say Senior design was my biggest fear, but it also involved speaking in front of faculty, which really freaked me out. I'm so glad it's over with. If I know the people, speaking in front of people isn't hard, but when I do not know anyone, then I'm scared.
gamermommy
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Degrees are definitely worth it. My husband doesn't have one, and even though he spent over a decade in an industry, many places won't even look at him without a degree.
The title of the article is a bit of a misnomer. It says the declining value, and I don't think the DEGREE has a declining value, but the job market in general does. Having a degree still means you're ahead of those who don't, but that doesn't make the job market better. And the woman who was profiled, I'm sure wasn't looking for entry-level positions. She was looking to make what she had at her previous position. Now I'm guessing here, but it said she started an internet cafe, my bet after she couldn't find anything in her desired pay scale she would take. As the article said, she was offered a similar position for 1/3 the pay. That's not a derivative of having a degree, that's a derivative of the now hotly competitive technology sector, especially since we're sending vast numbers of those types of jobs to India.
The title of the article is a bit of a misnomer. It says the declining value, and I don't think the DEGREE has a declining value, but the job market in general does. Having a degree still means you're ahead of those who don't, but that doesn't make the job market better. And the woman who was profiled, I'm sure wasn't looking for entry-level positions. She was looking to make what she had at her previous position. Now I'm guessing here, but it said she started an internet cafe, my bet after she couldn't find anything in her desired pay scale she would take. As the article said, she was offered a similar position for 1/3 the pay. That's not a derivative of having a degree, that's a derivative of the now hotly competitive technology sector, especially since we're sending vast numbers of those types of jobs to India.
thesimplicity
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I may have just fallen into a weird predicament, but I really regret going to college. I did a five year degree in four years at a good school, a double major, graduated with a 3.9 GPA with tons of concurrent study credits from even better schools (MIT, RISD, Cooper Union)... and then I couldn't find a job for nine months after graduating. I ended up moving 3000 miles away from home for a rather shitty position. On my salary I can barely pay the interest on my student loans and I have nothing in savings. It doesn't help that the field I went into became very crowded around the time I graduated... but the crushing debt of my loans seems to negate any positive points in my getting a degree. Any job I apply for seems to go to someone with a master's... it's like playing a frickin' CCG. Constantly beaten by the rich kids.
ighosty
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Whether a major is considered "hard" or not depends on the person in that major. I am a physics/math dual major and I know my classes may look very hard to some, and they are hard, but I enjoy taking them.
The graduating class isn't really a good gauge for rating a classes difficulty, since it depends on the school and class size. The graduating class last year at my school had a 2 person class for biotechnology, while the physics classes is a usual 10-20 people, and the engineering class is even larger.
The graduating class isn't really a good gauge for rating a classes difficulty, since it depends on the school and class size. The graduating class last year at my school had a 2 person class for biotechnology, while the physics classes is a usual 10-20 people, and the engineering class is even larger.
soulvengeance
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[quote name='thesimplicity']I may have just fallen into a weird predicament, but I really regret going to college. I did a five year degree in four years at a good school, a double major, graduated with a 3.9 GPA with tons of concurrent study credits from even better schools (MIT, RISD, Cooper Union)... and then I couldn't find a job for nine months after graduating. I ended up moving 3000 miles away from home for a rather shitty position. On my salary I can barely pay the interest on my student loans and I have nothing in savings. It doesn't help that the field I went into became very crowded around the time I graduated... but the crushing debt of my loans seems to negate any positive points in my getting a degree. Any job I apply for seems to go to someone with a master's... it's like playing a frickin' CCG. Constantly beaten by the rich kids.[/QUOTE]
That sucks man, hopefully you can get some experience from this job and move on to a better job.
That sucks man, hopefully you can get some experience from this job and move on to a better job.
[quote name='ighosty']Whether a major is considered "hard" or not depends on the person in that major. I am a physics/math dual major and I know my classes may look very hard to some, and they are hard, but I enjoy taking them.
[/QUOTE]
Exactly. Too some that's hard as they hate/aren't good at math, physics etc. To others a class with a ton of reading and writing papers is hard as they don't llike to read and hate (or suck at) writing.
But there are some majors that are easier than others for sure, just in terms of having a lighter work load overall (regardless of the type of work).
[/QUOTE]
Exactly. Too some that's hard as they hate/aren't good at math, physics etc. To others a class with a ton of reading and writing papers is hard as they don't llike to read and hate (or suck at) writing.
But there are some majors that are easier than others for sure, just in terms of having a lighter work load overall (regardless of the type of work).
[quote name='gamermommy']
Having a degree still means you're ahead of those who don't, but that doesn't make the job market better. [/QUOTE]
While that's true, the problem is the degree does you little if there's a ton of people with degrees applying for every job. And of course that's compounded by the job market, as that leads to that situation being the norm.
That's the problem at hand, the job market is saturated with most people going for any white collar job having at least a bachelor's degree (especially in major cities) so having a bachelor's doesn't really do much in many areas/fields other than not instantly get your application/resume tossed in the trash.
Having a degree still means you're ahead of those who don't, but that doesn't make the job market better. [/QUOTE]
While that's true, the problem is the degree does you little if there's a ton of people with degrees applying for every job. And of course that's compounded by the job market, as that leads to that situation being the norm.
That's the problem at hand, the job market is saturated with most people going for any white collar job having at least a bachelor's degree (especially in major cities) so having a bachelor's doesn't really do much in many areas/fields other than not instantly get your application/resume tossed in the trash.
fatherofcaitlyn
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Let's try a scenario:
Person #1:
1. Not smart enough to get into college.
2. Works for a dive 60 hours a week for $7/hour.
3. Lives at home with parents.
4. Puts $150 per week in a mutual fund making 10% per year.
Person #2:
1. Smart enough to get into college.
2. Works for a dive 10 hours a week for $7/hour (think work study job).
3. Takes out $6,000 in loans per year at an interest rate of 3%.
4. Lives at home with parents.
How much money does Person #2 have to earn before he/she surpasses Person #1's savings at a particular age?
Show your work.
Person #1:
1. Not smart enough to get into college.
2. Works for a dive 60 hours a week for $7/hour.
3. Lives at home with parents.
4. Puts $150 per week in a mutual fund making 10% per year.
Person #2:
1. Smart enough to get into college.
2. Works for a dive 10 hours a week for $7/hour (think work study job).
3. Takes out $6,000 in loans per year at an interest rate of 3%.
4. Lives at home with parents.
How much money does Person #2 have to earn before he/she surpasses Person #1's savings at a particular age?
Show your work.
Does person #1 receive overtime for working more than 40 hours a week as mandated by law?
Does person #2 have subsidized or unsubsidized loans?
How much does person #2 make at a full-time position after graduating (as in, when they start working 40 hours rather than 10)
Does person #2 have subsidized or unsubsidized loans?
How much does person #2 make at a full-time position after graduating (as in, when they start working 40 hours rather than 10)
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[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Person #2:
1. Smart enough to get into college.
2. Works for a dive 10 hours a week for $7/hour (think work study job).[/QUOTE]
Co-ops at my school for juniors and seniors average $20/hr, the great students make as much as $30/hr, pre-engineering (freshman and sophomores) average $15/hr...
Part-time co-op is 20 hrs/wk, full-time co-op is 40 hrs/wk.
1. Smart enough to get into college.
2. Works for a dive 10 hours a week for $7/hour (think work study job).[/QUOTE]
Co-ops at my school for juniors and seniors average $20/hr, the great students make as much as $30/hr, pre-engineering (freshman and sophomores) average $15/hr...
Part-time co-op is 20 hrs/wk, full-time co-op is 40 hrs/wk.
While that may be true of engineering and other technical majors, co-ops for humanities/arts are much less. I worked 2 unpaid co-ops in film, and another in event planning which was only about $14/hr.
And co-op, especially full-time, is really only practiced at a handful of universities.
And co-op, especially full-time, is really only practiced at a handful of universities.
.Regardless of money, I could almost guarantee you the person 2 is much happier!
I'm still in grad school at 29, and have pretty decent student loan debt (around $50,000) so it will take me a long time to make as much as some uneducated construction worker who's been breaking his back since age 16.
But I couldn't be happier. Love what I do, will love the career I'll have when I'm done with the Ph D next summer. Money isn't everything. I've never met anyone I liked (or that appeared happy with their own lives) who's main focus was maximizing savings. Such people tend to hate their jobs and just be miserably slogging away to save up enough to retire.
Where as I've lived comfortably, will do even better when I graduate, love my work and couldn't care less about retiring early.
I'm still in grad school at 29, and have pretty decent student loan debt (around $50,000) so it will take me a long time to make as much as some uneducated construction worker who's been breaking his back since age 16.
But I couldn't be happier. Love what I do, will love the career I'll have when I'm done with the Ph D next summer. Money isn't everything. I've never met anyone I liked (or that appeared happy with their own lives) who's main focus was maximizing savings. Such people tend to hate their jobs and just be miserably slogging away to save up enough to retire.
Where as I've lived comfortably, will do even better when I graduate, love my work and couldn't care less about retiring early.
Does this make me a loser that my goal in life is to just chill and be happy?
I kinda wanna go to college, but that's only because I feel required to go eventually.
For a career, I really don't have anything in mind :lol: :lol:..like if I have a job that I'm paid well in, and I'm content with...and basically all my financial needs and WANTS are met..does it really matter?
Like I just HATE the concept of work. I really don't get how people's driving focus in life is what they do at work. You can spend 80 hours a week at work, and make a TON of money but when do you get a chance to spend all that money?! :lol:
I don't know, I'm liking being the second income in this family of ours.. :lol:
I kinda wanna go to college, but that's only because I feel required to go eventually.
For a career, I really don't have anything in mind :lol: :lol:..like if I have a job that I'm paid well in, and I'm content with...and basically all my financial needs and WANTS are met..does it really matter?
Like I just HATE the concept of work. I really don't get how people's driving focus in life is what they do at work. You can spend 80 hours a week at work, and make a TON of money but when do you get a chance to spend all that money?! :lol:
I don't know, I'm liking being the second income in this family of ours.. :lol:
fatherofcaitlyn
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[quote name='lordwow']Does person #1 receive overtime for working more than 40 hours a week as mandated by law?
Does person #2 have subsidized or unsubsidized loans?
How much does person #2 make at a full-time position after graduating (as in, when they start working 40 hours rather than 10)[/quote]
1. Irrelevant. Person #1 saves $150 per week. Whether he earns $280 or $490 gross, $150 goes to the mutual fund.
2. More relevant. Subsidized loans put the person at $24,000 in the hole. Unsubsidized loans put the person $25,112 in the hole. Of course, I didn't mention the 8% in origination and loan guarantee fees. So, ignore the fees and chose to use the subsidy or not.
3. Therein lies the purpose of the simplified exercise.
Does person #2 have subsidized or unsubsidized loans?
How much does person #2 make at a full-time position after graduating (as in, when they start working 40 hours rather than 10)[/quote]
1. Irrelevant. Person #1 saves $150 per week. Whether he earns $280 or $490 gross, $150 goes to the mutual fund.
2. More relevant. Subsidized loans put the person at $24,000 in the hole. Unsubsidized loans put the person $25,112 in the hole. Of course, I didn't mention the 8% in origination and loan guarantee fees. So, ignore the fees and chose to use the subsidy or not.
3. Therein lies the purpose of the simplified exercise.
What I have learned in College I cannot put a price tag on, nor do I care what kind of Job I land from my degree.
For me the most important reason to go to College is the ideas you are exposed to, the people you meet, the way of looking at the world, and problem solving skills both in and out of the workplace. It brought me to my breaking point (or so I thought) in terms of working and thinking i.e staying up all night, writing at 30 page paper on Wal-mart, studying for 6 hours straight. It taught me how to speak and (somewhat) write in a concise and logical manner.
I know it sounds cliche but College is what you make of it. If you want to get in--get out and make a ton of money then you won't get much, but if you take your time, experiment with classes, immerse yourselves in many subjects (even for just a semester), talk to other students and teachers, and really try hard and do your best then you will come out a better more enlighten person. Which will probably lead to a better job anyway....better stress management, typing/writing/speaking, problem-solving, organization skills etc.
For me the most important reason to go to College is the ideas you are exposed to, the people you meet, the way of looking at the world, and problem solving skills both in and out of the workplace. It brought me to my breaking point (or so I thought) in terms of working and thinking i.e staying up all night, writing at 30 page paper on Wal-mart, studying for 6 hours straight. It taught me how to speak and (somewhat) write in a concise and logical manner.
I know it sounds cliche but College is what you make of it. If you want to get in--get out and make a ton of money then you won't get much, but if you take your time, experiment with classes, immerse yourselves in many subjects (even for just a semester), talk to other students and teachers, and really try hard and do your best then you will come out a better more enlighten person. Which will probably lead to a better job anyway....better stress management, typing/writing/speaking, problem-solving, organization skills etc.
[quote name='cdietschrun']For any hard pressed college grad who can't find a job, I can find you 20 more high school grads who can't get a job.
[/quote]
Not here in Quebec! The employment rate for machinists is around 98%. The employers come and get them at their school in the first year of formation.. The formation lasts 2 years and costs a few hundred bucks. We keep hearing 'bout overqualification since the baby boomers started retiring. It's pretty sad for people trying to get jobs in IT.
[/quote]
Not here in Quebec! The employment rate for machinists is around 98%. The employers come and get them at their school in the first year of formation.. The formation lasts 2 years and costs a few hundred bucks. We keep hearing 'bout overqualification since the baby boomers started retiring. It's pretty sad for people trying to get jobs in IT.
[quote name='gareman']What I have learned in College I cannot put a price tag on, nor do I care what kind of Job I land from my degree.
For me the most important reason to go to College is the ideas you are exposed to, the people you meet, the way of looking at the world, and problem solving skills both in and out of the workplace. It brought me to my breaking point (or so I thought) in terms of working and thinking i.e staying up all night, writing at 30 page paper on Wal-mart, studying for 6 hours straight. It taught me how to speak and (somewhat) write in a concise and logical manner.
I know it sounds cliche but College is what you make of it. If you want to get in--get out and make a ton of money then you won't get much, but if you take your time, experiment with classes, immerse yourselves in many subjects (even for just a semester), talk to other students and teachers, and really try hard and do your best then you will come out a better more enlighten person. Which will probably lead to a better job anyway....better stress management, typing/writing/speaking, problem-solving, organization skills etc.[/quote]
Wow, that pretty much sums it up.
A lot of what you learn there ends up being only "basic training" since all places work in a different way. However the experience itself is valuable.
For me the most important reason to go to College is the ideas you are exposed to, the people you meet, the way of looking at the world, and problem solving skills both in and out of the workplace. It brought me to my breaking point (or so I thought) in terms of working and thinking i.e staying up all night, writing at 30 page paper on Wal-mart, studying for 6 hours straight. It taught me how to speak and (somewhat) write in a concise and logical manner.
I know it sounds cliche but College is what you make of it. If you want to get in--get out and make a ton of money then you won't get much, but if you take your time, experiment with classes, immerse yourselves in many subjects (even for just a semester), talk to other students and teachers, and really try hard and do your best then you will come out a better more enlighten person. Which will probably lead to a better job anyway....better stress management, typing/writing/speaking, problem-solving, organization skills etc.[/quote]
Wow, that pretty much sums it up.
A lot of what you learn there ends up being only "basic training" since all places work in a different way. However the experience itself is valuable.
bread's done