The myth of "Islamophobia" in America

Someone should sneak into their houses and put little "on topic" stickers on their shoes, and then sit back in a lawn chair with a nice drink and watch the results.
 
Ohhhh I am sorry, I didn't know that noone could interrupt your nonsensical discussion of how the tea party is so similiar to the taliban with a statement highlighting a similiar comparison that is often made against your side that you despise and consider ridiculous and false.

But who really cares right? The people you consider "idiots" on the right are making similiar comparisons between groups as you guys. I wonder what that makes you guys.....?

Again sorry that I am not on topic and discussing the real similiarities between the tea party and the taliban. Why don't one of you kick it off and prove to me that one of those similiarities are truely a similiarity. Come on.... just one of them.
 
The difference is that when someone compares liberal ideals to socialist ones, we usually don't see the problem. That's because we know that socialism doesn't automatically = OMG HITLER NAZIS!!!!!!
 
Dude, seriously. If you think the topic was the tea party and the taliban, I'm going to tell you something that may turn your world upside down. Each thread has what I call 'a title'. Oftentimes this 'title' informs the reader of the topic.

This thread's title does not mention liberals or communists, therefore, it would apear you are 'off-topic'

Consider this an afterschool special, The More You Know.
 
[quote name='berzirk']Dude, seriously. If you think the topic was the tea party and the taliban, I'm going to tell you something that may turn your world upside down. Each thread has what I call 'a title'. Oftentimes this 'title' informs the reader of the topic.

This thread's title does not mention liberals or communists, therefore, it would apear you are 'off-topic'

Consider this an afterschool special, The More You Know.[/QUOTE]



Wow, you guys are so consistent in your hypocrisy. +1 for your consistency, but maybe there are better areas to focus it....

It really reflects a lot of your views.

mykevermin: Here is a ridiculous comic.

spazx: fucking fantastic

clak: :rofl: perfect

knoell: I don't think that comic truely goes any deeper than getting a knee jerk reaction out of people by quoting false similiarities.

berzirk: Knoell Stop being off topic. Gosh why can't you just focus.

knoell: Oh sorry, I guess I can't comment on the ridiculousness of the comic (or more so the ridiculous comparison it makes), so you guys really want a discussion? Ok let's discuss the similiarities.....

berzirk: the topic is not about the taliban and the tea party, it is about the thread title. Stop being so off topic.
Click to expand...
 
Haha. I'm convinced that you've got a learning disability or something. Seeing the conclusions you come to after reading something truly brings joy to my life. You need your own Cliffs Notes. I would buy every copy.

The Autobiography of Malcolm X-Affirmitive action doesn't work

Great Expectations-Handouts for the poor are ruining the country

Cat in the Hat-Obama is a muslim and born in Taiwan

You would be a star. If I can invest in this endeavor, please let me know
 
[quote name='berzirk']Haha. I'm convinced that you've got a learning disability or something. Seeing the conclusions you come to after reading something truly brings joy to my life. You need your own Cliffs Notes. I would buy every copy.

The Autobiography of Malcolm X-Affirmitive action doesn't work

Great Expectations-Handouts for the poor are ruining the country

Cat in the Hat-Obama is a muslim and born in Taiwan

You would be a star. If I can invest in this endeavor, please let me know[/QUOTE]

What the fuck are you talking about?
 
He's talking about your...unique...understanding of things. When most reasonable people would see A, you see B.
 
[quote name='Clak']He's talking about your...unique...understanding of things. When most reasonable people would see A, you see B.[/QUOTE]

You should learn the definition of staying on topic. Look at the thread title.
 
[quote name='Knoell']You should learn the definition of staying on topic. Look at the thread title.[/QUOTE]
You asked what he was talking about, I told you what I think he meant. Reading comprehension, use it.
 
[quote name='Clak']You asked what he was talking about, I told you what I think he meant. Reading comprehension, use it.[/QUOTE]

Oh I see...you are responding to someone's post that you disagree with but has nothing to do with the topic....Oh I get it now.
 
[quote name='Clak']I was responding to your post you ignorant moron. fucking hell man...[/QUOTE]

So I see you don't see your hypocrisy yet.

Someone posts a comic that makes quite a few ridiculous statements.

You laugh at said comic.

I say the comic doesn't make sense, and that it is similiar to people making the ridiculous connection of liberals and communists.

You all tell me I need to learn how to stay on topic.

I say well if the ridiculousness of the comic isn't on topic then I guess I will seriously discuss the comic.

You all tell me I need to learn how to stay on topic.

I guess I am wondering if the comic isn't up for discussion why wasn't whoever posted it told that they need to learn to stay on topic or whatnot. It is less about me thinking it is unfair, and more about pointing out the thought process with all of you.

Points that you disagree with get a firm yelling at.
Points that you agree with, or that benefit your argument (no matter of fact) get a HIGHlarious, or a free pass.

It really is interesting.
 
[quote name='dohdough']LOLZ...I guess the FIRST AMENDMENT doesn't exist anymore either.[/QUOTE]

It's Republican pandering to scared white people. No way such a law would be upheld as Constitutional. Especially given yesterday's ruling in the Westboro Baptist Church case.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']It's Republican pandering to scared white people. No way such a law would be upheld as Constitutional. Especially given yesterday's ruling in the Westboro Baptist Church case.[/QUOTE]
Yeah pretty much. This just reaffirms the mentality that they use the CONSTITUTION! as cover for thier fascism, racism, sexism, and other -isms/phobias. Goddamn republifucks have no sense of shame.
 
[quote name='Knoell']So I see you don't see your hypocrisy yet.

Someone posts a comic that makes quite a few ridiculous statements.

You laugh at said comic.

I say the comic doesn't make sense, and that it is similiar to people making the ridiculous connection of liberals and communists.

You all tell me I need to learn how to stay on topic.

I say well if the ridiculousness of the comic isn't on topic then I guess I will seriously discuss the comic.

You all tell me I need to learn how to stay on topic.

I guess I am wondering if the comic isn't up for discussion why wasn't whoever posted it told that they need to learn to stay on topic or whatnot. It is less about me thinking it is unfair, and more about pointing out the thought process with all of you.

Points that you disagree with get a firm yelling at.
Points that you agree with, or that benefit your argument (no matter of fact) get a HIGHlarious, or a free pass.

It really is interesting.[/QUOTE]I never said a damn thing about you staying on topic, I don't give a rat's ass one way or the other. You asked what he meant, I told you what I thought he meant, end of discussion.
 
Yeah, it isn't a problem until it reaches at least 89.14637% percent of the population or something, then that's too much dammit.

On another note, I think it's time another Team America movie was made.
 
[quote name='Knoell']you submit this as evidence that the nation is teeming with "islamoooophobia"?[/QUOTE]

Show me where I said that 'the nation is teeming with islamophobia'.
 
[quote name='IRHari']Show me where I said that 'the nation is teeming with islamophobia'.[/QUOTE]

So you agree it isn't?
 
That wouldn't have anything to do with more than three quarters of the population identifying themselves as christians or anything. No not at all. It is phobic to elect people who have similiar beliefs. (whether or not they really do have similiar beliefs is up to debate though).
 
[quote name='Knoell']That wouldn't have anything to do with more than three quarters of the population identifying themselves as christians or anything. No not at all. It is phobic to elect people who have similiar beliefs. (whether or not they really do have similiar beliefs is up to debate though).[/QUOTE]

I would submit that there's a difference between moderates and fundies/extremists.
 
[quote name='Knoell']and you submit this as evidence that the nation is teeming with "islamoooophobia"?[/QUOTE]

[quote name='IRHari']Show me where I said that 'the nation is teeming with islamophobia'.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Knoell']
So you agree it isn't?[/QUOTE]

This is why no one likes you. Don't complain next time someone uses this slimy tactic against you.
 
Haha. I've been on the road this week so I haven't been able to stay up to date on this thread, but it is quickly becoming a HOF one. Random stats with no link,the irony of having Knoell respond to my sarcastic post with more confusion, misinterpretation and attempted misdirection.

At some point he's nomination worthy.

It's like there is an intentional refusal to properly educate himself on the topic, then be obstinate when he's called out for being uninformed. I'm confident enough in myself to read and not debate in the economics thread because many of you on the board are much more knowledgeable than me in econ. I wonder why the least informed on this topic also tend to be the most vocal.
 
[quote name='IRHari']This is why no one likes you. Don't complain next time someone uses this slimy tactic against you.[/QUOTE]

You post a video showing a few hundred protesters shouting ignorant things at peaceful muslims. You then go on to mockingly and sarcastically say "we have always been at war with radical islam".

I took it as you trying to say we are at war with all of islam. If that isn't slimy then....You really don't think that is slimy?
 
[quote name='berzirk']Haha. I've been on the road this week so I haven't been able to stay up to date on this thread, but it is quickly becoming a HOF one. Random stats with no link,the irony of having Knoell respond to my sarcastic post with more confusion, misinterpretation and attempted misdirection.

At some point he's nomination worthy.

It's like there is an intentional refusal to properly educate himself on the topic, then be obstinate when he's called out for being uninformed. I'm confident enough in myself to read and not debate in the economics thread because many of you on the board are much more knowledgeable than me in econ. I wonder why the least informed on this topic also tend to be the most vocal.[/QUOTE]

"I was away for a few days, so now I will come back and spout off personal insults because he still doesn't believe my point was right."

So which statistic do you contest?:

Number of christians in America?

http://livinginliminality.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/aris_report_2008.pdf

Number of protesters?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NutFkykjmbM&nofeather=True

Population of Yorba Linda? (subtracted the kids, and I think I was quite generous only including Yorba Linda)

http://yorbalinda.areaconnect.com/statistics.htm

You then go on to rag on the fact that I don't understand the post chok full of personal insults. However let's start back at the comic. I personally think it does not add to the discussion, and it is quite tasteless, not to mention off topic. So I attempt to show you how ridiculous you all sound by listing a similiar comparison the other side makes. I think maybe, just maybe, they will see that they are acting like the people they call idiots.

However, you seem to think it is on topic and quite truthful. I am guessing that is because you believe it shows a link that the tea party is full of islamophobes. I ask you to explain this link and you say:

[quote name='berzirk']Knoell:

I can only imagine what it must have been like to be your 3rd grade teacher responsible for keeping you on task. 'No, we're doing math right now, please take your coat off and leave the markers alone.'

Do you physically have the ability to stay on topic?[/QUOTE]

And

[quote name='berzirk']Dude, seriously. If you think the topic was the tea party and the taliban, I'm going to tell you something that may turn your world upside down. Each thread has what I call 'a title'. Oftentimes this 'title' informs the reader of the topic.

This thread's title does not mention liberals or communists, therefore, it would apear you are 'off-topic'

Consider this an afterschool special, The More You Know.[/QUOTE]

And this.

[quote name='berzirk']Haha. I'm convinced that you've got a learning disability or something. Seeing the conclusions you come to after reading something truly brings joy to my life. You need your own Cliffs Notes. I would buy every copy.

The Autobiography of Malcolm X-Affirmitive action doesn't work

Great Expectations-Handouts for the poor are ruining the country

Cat in the Hat-Obama is a muslim and born in Taiwan

You would be a star. If I can invest in this endeavor, please let me know[/QUOTE]

Yep, you sure sound like the educated one. :roll:

I am sure your like minded posse will be quick to disagree though.
 
[quote name='camoor']I would submit that there's a difference between moderates and fundies/extremists.[/QUOTE]

I would argue that christian values transcend fundamentalism. Most people who call themselves christians in the US, do not practice it much, if it all, so they look to people who hold such values.

I absolutely love how you slipped extremists in there though. Which President was an extremist?
 
I don't think we've always been at war with islam, I think christianity has been, and as the U.S. is predominately christian, we get caught up in the bullshit.
 
[quote name='Knoell']I would argue that christian values transcend fundamentalism.[/QUOTE]

This is how every extremist thinks.

I guess the centuries of religious wars and crusades aren't enough?
 
Another thing, values which many people describe as being "christian values" are not in any way unique to christianity. It's something I think a lot of people, no matter how religious they are or aren't, don't realize.
 
[quote name='Clak']Another thing, values which many people describe as being "christian values" are not in any way unique to christianity. It's something I think a lot of people, no matter how religious they are or aren't, don't realize.[/QUOTE]

What does it matter if it is unique to christianity? If I am a christian and I believe in God, honesty, morality, humbleness, etc etc etc. then I am going to flow towards the candidate that best fits that those values.

Again whether or not a candidate fits those values can be up for debate, but there is no denying the fact that christians look for that in people.

Again, Again, people who do, and do not practice their faith will look for such values, and be completely wrong, or the choices may be limited.
 
Okay this answer is coming from a Muslim American who was born in Oregon. Islamophobia exists. Everyone saw the reactions from the anti-Ground Zero cultural center and everyone saw how much animosity was shown. Everyone that was against the cultural center is afraid of Islam. Phobias are not irrational fears. I don't understand how a fear of spiders or heights is irrational. Therefore Islamophobia is not an irrational fear of Islam, it IS a fear of Islam. Anti-ground zero cultural center protesters are only escalating things. A terrorist leader said that these sort of reactions against Muslims give the terrorists reason to recruit more people. I am also going to bring Fox News into this because 90% of it and it's followers are racists. Especially that Jihad Watch founder and Pamela Geller.
 
[quote name='IRHari'] It's all a myth. This didn't really happen. CAIR is a biased source. We've always been at war with radical Islam.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Knoell'] I took it as you trying to say we are at war with all of islam.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='IRHari']
We've always been at war with radical Islam.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Knoell']I took it as you trying to say we are at war with all of islam.[/QUOTE]

reading comprehension brah. do it.
 
I'll be darned, there are far more people who classify themselves as Christian than I thought. My apologies, I was completely wrong on that point: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.htmlhttps://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html (approximately 78% including Mormons and "Other Christian" from a very credible source) EDIT-Hmm...link didn't work. Just search CIA Factbook, then select the US.

Also interesting in that link is the fact that they list .6% as Muslim. So somehow, this .6% is worthy of frequent protests which target them, organizations that fight against the construction of mosques, victims of profiling and violence, politicians that speak out against them specifically. So I think it's fair to say there is a disproportionate amount of fear, disdain, lack of trust, and misguided hatred towards such a small percentage of our country.

Regarding the personal attack stuff, I'm attacking the way you read something and come to unbelievably bizarre results along with your Captain Insane-o analogies. You could very well be a brilliant economist, chemist, mathmetician, I don't know. What I do know is that you have repeatedly shown your lack of understanding on matters which involve Islam.

As I said earlier, I'm fine with deferring to those with knowledge in topics I don't have an understanding for, I just wonder what it is about you and this topic, that continue to make you so vocal, across multiple threads, with such poor information. So yes, personally speaking, I don't think you're very smart when it comes to discussions of Islam.

Specific to the video, if it was just a bunch of dickheads gathering to throw slurs at Muslims, that's one thing, but to have elected officials on hand to spit such venom shows a systematic bias against Muslims (right Peter King?)

How do you describe the fact that Obama has had to repeatedly distance himself from comments made by morons who say he's a Muslim? If the country was tolerant of Muslims, and he was one, then it shouldn't matter, right? Instead, it's taken like he's a criminal or freak if Islam was his religion. Anyhoo, back at a PC instead of typing on my phone, so there's my more thought-out response.
 
[quote name='IRHari']reading comprehension brah. do it.[/QUOTE]

Really? My apologies if that wasn't sarcasm, but it sure did read like it.

Why else would you be talking about radical islam alongside a video of peaceful islam if not to show that we are attacking the peaceful ones as well.

My bad if that isn't what you meant though.
 
[quote name='berzirk']I'll be darned, there are far more people who classify themselves as Christian than I thought. My apologies, I was completely wrong on that point: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html (approximately 78% including Mormons and "Other Christian" from a very credible source) EDIT-Hmm...link didn't work. Just search CIA Factbook, then select the US.

Also interesting in that link is the fact that they list .6% as Muslim. So somehow, this .6% is worthy of frequent protests which target them, organizations that fight against the construction of mosques, victims of profiling and violence, politicians that speak out against them specifically. So I think it's fair to say there is a disproportionate amount of fear, disdain, lack of trust, and misguided hatred towards such a small percentage of our country.

Regarding the personal attack stuff, I'm attacking the way you read something and come to unbelievably bizarre results along with your Captain Insane-o analogies. You could very well be a brilliant economist, chemist, mathmetician, I don't know. What I do know is that you have repeatedly shown your lack of understanding on matters which involve Islam.

As I said earlier, I'm fine with deferring to those with knowledge in topics I don't have an understanding for, I just wonder what it is about you and this topic, that continue to make you so vocal, across multiple threads, with such poor information. So yes, personally speaking, I don't think you're very smart when it comes to discussions of Islam.

Specific to the video, if it was just a bunch of dickheads gathering to throw slurs at Muslims, that's one thing, but to have elected officials on hand to spit such venom shows a systematic bias against Muslims (right Peter King?)

How do you describe the fact that Obama has had to repeatedly distance himself from comments made by morons who say he's a Muslim? If the country was tolerant of Muslims, and he was one, then it shouldn't matter, right? Instead, it's taken like he's a criminal or freak if Islam was his religion. Anyhoo, back at a PC instead of typing on my phone, so there's my more thought-out response.[/QUOTE]

Haha, I love the CIA factbook. It kept me busy on the slow days at work, until they canned the internet on us.

The statistic is flawed as well though, as alot of people who label themselves christians, do not do anything to practice it.

As for the protestors, heres a decent explanation of events.

http://www.ocregister.com/news/america-288163-fundraiser-wahhaj.html

The youtube video would like you to think the protest in its entirity was shouting these things, but the news says it was a splinter group of about 100 who moved closer. This obviously doesn't justify the hate speech.

Next the youtube video would like you to think the protests are protesting the benefit itself, and yet the protesters said this when asked:

Many in the crowd outside the event said they were concerned about past anti-American statements by the event's two keynote speakers, Imam Siraj Wahhaj and Amir Abdel Malik Ali. Wahhaj is an imam at a mosque in Brooklyn. A U.S. attorney named him and 169 others as co-conspirators in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. Wahhaj was never charged and has denied involvement.

Malik Ali is a Bay Area Islamic activist who spoke at "Israeli Apartheid Week" at UC Irvine in 2010. There he said he supports Hezbollah, which the CIA labels a terrorist group.
Click to expand...

Again it does not justify hate speech, but the story isn't as one sided as you think.

As for Obama, he had to distance himself because the media covered it as if there was a credible claim. It is not fear of islam, it is politics. The same goes for any candidate for office who attempts to engineer their way to election. Will I get elected if I do this? Will more people like me if I do that? Saying that Americans fear islam because of their reaction to that potential is like saying Americans fear cigarrettes because he smokes. He was sure to engineer away from the fact that he was addicted, by saying he only smokes once in awhile. And yet quite a few Americans smoke, imagine that.
 
[quote name='Knoell']What does it matter if it is unique to christianity? If I am a christian[/QUOTE]

No shit

[quote name='Knoell'] and I believe in God, honesty, morality, humbleness, etc etc etc. then I am going to flow towards the candidate that best fits that those values.[/QUOTE]

It's the etcs that we have a problem with. You know - the priests assaulting kids, the abortion clinic bombings, the homophobia, 'intelligent' design, etc etc etc.
 
You honestly don't think it was the fear of having a Muslim president (as was falsely accused)? It was just some political game similar to covering up his smoking? This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about when I say you come to loony conclusions.

How bout when people said he was sworn in on a Quran AFTER he had been elected? Or the folks that freaked out nationally when Michigan congressman and Muslim Keith Ellison was electing, saying 'up next sharia!'

Or the current assclowns that are trying to pass unnecessary laws to ban Sharia (which is such a great buzzword for bigots these days)

These are all still political games, and not starting to appear systematic?
 
So here is another question, what makes a *insert religion here*? Because as I see it, many, many christians don't really practice christianity, but will claim to be one. Yet I'll bet if you caled them on it, you'd never get them to admit they really aren't, or at best give lip service to it.
 
[quote name='Clak']So here is another question, what makes a *insert religion here*? Because as I see it, many, many christians don't really practice christianity, but will claim to be one. Yet I'll bet if you caled them on it, you'd never get them to admit they really aren't, or at best give lip service to it.[/QUOTE]

You really think all religions are equally hypocritical?
 
Not entirely, but I think many religious people in general are. They like to claim they belong to whatever religion, but if you really examine them and their lives, you'll find they don't really follow it at all. You can chalk it up to whatever you like, some of it is probably simple laziness, it's easy to call yourself something, but talking the talk is easier than walking the walk, so to speak.
 
[quote name='Clak']Not entirely, but I think many religious people in general are. They like to claim they belong to whatever religion, but if you really examine them and their lives, you'll find they don't really follow it at all. You can chalk it up to whatever you like, some of it is probably simple laziness, it's easy to call yourself something, but talking the talk is easier than walking the walk, so to speak.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely. Although I think it's important to keep in mind that in America we get surrounded by the Abrahamic religions and I see many Americans unfairly tarring all religion with the same brush. I used to think that all religion was bunko until I realized that there was more then Christianity, Islam, and Judaism.
 
Well in principal I do, I mean I don't believe a guy walked on water any more than I do in reincarnation. But that's low level base stuff, the paranormal type things most all religions seem to have in common. I can appreciate the philosophical sides of religion, but that's all.
 
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