The Official 2007/2008 NBA thread

I can't believe people are complaining about the fouls.

31 free throws on both sides. 6 of them were intentional for the Lakers because of the Celtics fouling to get the ball back. Celtics had a 6 free throw advantage on the road and you guys find ways to complain.

Let's see what happens on Tuesday, hopefully the Lakers can make this interesting.

Ray Allen left right after the game to attend to his daughter who is in the hospital with diabetes. Hopefully he'll be there for Game 6.

See you guys on Tuesday.
 
[quote name='Poor2More']These Playoffs gave me a new respect for Paul Pierce, I always thought of him as a Solid good Player, now I consider him a Superstar with really good defense, and not many stars can say that[/quote]

Pierce has always been a superstar. The only reason he went under a lot of people's radar is because the Celtics have stunk it up since he's been there (other than the few playoff and conference final stints with Walker)
 
[quote name='primetime']You are right about all the stoppages. In this case, I don't think it's even about preserving the "flow of the game."

With all the contact that takes place on every play, most fouls boil down to being judgment calls. I have a major problem if challenges in the NBA involve reviewing (like you are suggesting) judgment fouls. That simply doesn't work. Then you've got to deal with problems such as views of the game (which will inevitably differ from ref to ref), all the commotion that will result from challenges from fans, coaches and players, the pride, for lack of a better term, of the referee causing him/her to not want to overturn the call, among many others. Replay isn't foolproof.

Challenges just wouldn't work in the NBA. There's a human component to officiating the game. What's so wrong about that? Refs are going to make mistakes. Like I said, it's no big deal-people gotta learn to move on.

Plus we gotta remember that this is probably the toughest pro sport to officiate. I certainly thought that Bryant had a clean strip in real time because of the way Pierce lost the ball. Of course it was wrong, but that's not as easy of a call to make as I think some people here believe.

Look at some other ways to improve officiating-challenges aren't the answer in the NBA.[/quote]

I again would disagree. I am not talking about a full 2 and a half min guy walks into a booth type of "challenge." There simply is to much time where you could easily check a replay and see if it was the right call.

Also "the human component" is bullshit to me because David Stern seemingly does nothing to crack down and make sure each ref is at the highest responsibility. When a ref misses a really big call they seemingly are never punished for it. This is why I cant just take it and move on. Its not every once and a while...its almost every god damn game...and every play offs. It happens FAR to often for us to be giving them the benefit of the doubt anymore. 1 qrt you can barely look at someone with out a foul the next you can hack a guys head off and not get one.

Also we talk like there is only 1 of them out there....but in fact there are 3. I still dont see how most of these calls go through when there are 3 guys all looking at it from 3 different angles. That should be enough to not warrant a replay.


By the way the NBA is not the toughest sport to call....it only seems that way because they screw up so much. Soccer is much tougher sense 1 lone ref has to cover the entire length of the pitch and all 22 players with the line judges only calling for offsides.
 
Basically what I am saying is no matter what they do they need to limit "The human element" down to solely players and coaches.

They need to start limiting the the "I saw this..." when it clearly didnt happen.

Currently there are far far to many times where games are decided on nothing more than a whim by a guy who thinks he saw something.


That and the fact they need to actually start following the god damn rules to begin with. Lets forget about fouls for now and work on traveling, charging, 3 in the key.

There are a ton of rules that seemingly dont exist in the nba.
 
[quote name='lordwow']I could be Rondo. Just throw the ball away anytime you charge the basket.[/quote]
Rondo makes some of the worst decisions as a PG, plus he can't really shoot. They should have Eddie House in more, if not all the time. Cassel was ok, made better shots and helped out the team more.

[quote name='kube00']Jump ball and that's it for Vujacic, lame,but Cassell should get more playing time I agree and on the Lakers side put in Mihm, he's not that bad. [/quote]
I just dunno about Cassel, he's no longer consistent with his offense or his defense. Tonight was good for him though. The time Mihm was in seemed like a waste. Phil must really like to take chances, his player decisions never look sound.

Congrats to the Lakers though for holding on. Although, everyone seems to have the attitude that Lakers wont be so lucky next game looking at a shoddy game like this.
 
Can anyone get a gif or a link to a video of when vlad had that horrid travel? The one where he stole the ball then took like 6 steps without dribbling for a dunk.
 
Lakers didn't look so sharp but managed over 100 points. I'll take a win any way I can get it, they were fortunate to get the steal at the end, but they really need to work on their pick and roll defense, it's just horrid.

I like that they went to the middle and applauded for the fans, it shows that they do appreciate the support.

As an afterthought, I think they should put Ariza on Pierce, at least he will be able to do SOMETHING instead letting him fly by every time. The announcers say it again and again, force the Celtics to the middle, not base line, and study the people you're going to defend beforehand so you know what you're going up against. Solve the pick and roll problem on defense because without a doubt they'll probably abuse that all of Game 6, and 7, which will eventually lead up to going over the team foul limit and foul trouble for certain players.

I'd take Rad out of the starting line-up already, and FOR LAKERS SAKES keep Luke Walton out of the game. He's proven to be nothing but a detriment to the team all series long. I like Farmar, his defense needs some serious work but his play on offense has been positive. The overall thing the Lakers are missing is just consistency. When they played the Spurs the commentators criticized the Spurs habit of going into a slump where they can't knock down a single shot, allowing the other team to get back into the game, hang around, and eventually take over. This is the road the Lakers are starting to go down in this series. They can keep it up for a quarter or so, but then just hit a huge slump where their shooting is so poor they'll throw the ball at the ground and miss -_-

With that being said, go Lakers! ;O
 
By the way, was anyone just annoyed at Vujajic? It always looks like he flops every play on defense. He even threw himself to the ground against Cassel... who is basically double his age and the friendliest alien in the universe. They need to seriously fine him for all his flops.
 
[quote name='lordwow']The announcers were ripping into him for that flop he took.[/quote]


Thats not good enough though.

The refs need to start ripping into him for the flops he takes. Fining does nothing to a guy who makes millions (maybe some of the rookies or really low player...who wouldnt even flop to begin with) you have to make it so something like that effects the game.


Tech foul,
Personal foul (I dont see why not because if successful the other guy will wind up with a personal foul.)
Loss of possession IE turnover.

There needs to be something more than a pat on the wrist after the game is over.

The thing I am really hating about the NBA is the fact that David Stern is so god damn passive aggressive. He never does shit that actually effects the game for the better....always thinking up off the court things that no one really cares about.

He pitched a bitch about players wearing suits on the way to the game but wont do anything against flopping, really bad calls, the obvious favoritisms to keep superstars in the game, the lack of rules being enforced like traveling.

This is aided by the fact that he keeps brushing tim dounty (SP) account of refs fixing games. He hasnt even addressed it.....mostly seem to point and say look over there while he turns and jumps into a hole.

He is such a bitch.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']I again would disagree. I am not talking about a full 2 and a half min guy walks into a booth type of "challenge." There simply is to much time where you could easily check a replay and see if it was the right call.

Also "the human component" is bullshit to me because David Stern seemingly does nothing to crack down and make sure each ref is at the highest responsibility. When a ref misses a really big call they seemingly are never punished for it. This is why I cant just take it and move on. Its not every once and a while...its almost every god damn game...and every play offs. It happens FAR to often for us to be giving them the benefit of the doubt anymore. 1 qrt you can barely look at someone with out a foul the next you can hack a guys head off and not get one.

Also we talk like there is only 1 of them out there....but in fact there are 3. I still dont see how most of these calls go through when there are 3 guys all looking at it from 3 different angles. That should be enough to not warrant a replay.


By the way the NBA is not the toughest sport to call....it only seems that way because they screw up so much. Soccer is much tougher sense 1 lone ref has to cover the entire length of the pitch and all 22 players with the line judges only calling for offsides.[/quote]

See, that's what I'm talking about. There are more solutions but nothing is being done. I just don't think challenges work for the game, i.e. like i said all the judgment fouls in the NBA. You could look back on a challenge and call a foul on every single play by the rules, but it doesn't, and I think shouldn't, work that way. I'm having a tough time explaining myself fully, but I hope you get what I'm saying.

And soccer is not as difficult because the density of fouls is lesser and there are less things to look for, among other things. Linesman are actually a big help to the center ref. They not only call offside but can flag fouls in their quadrant, watch the lines, indicate direction, and so on. The center has to be in shape but really only runs along a diagonal. He doesn't have to be that close to the play either, nor should he be.
 
[quote name='primetime']See, that's what I'm talking about. There are more solutions but nothing is being done. I just don't think challenges work for the game, i.e. like i said all the judgment fouls in the NBA. You could look back on a challenge and call a foul on every single play by the rules, but it doesn't, and I think shouldn't, work that way. I'm having a tough time explaining myself fully, but I hope you get what I'm saying.

And soccer is not as difficult because the density of fouls is lesser and there are less things to look for, among other things. Linesman are actually a big help to the center ref. They not only call offside but can flag fouls in their quadrant, watch the lines, indicate direction, and so on. The center has to be in shape but really only runs along a diagonal. He doesn't have to be that close to the play either, nor should he be.[/quote]

Yeah I agree with you for the first part. There are many a problems and sterns seems very content about not solving any of them. Basically it doesnt matter what they do...as long as they try to do something.

But your bit about soccer is completely wrong.
I dont think in my entire career of playing soccer which includes high school, 4 years college, I have seen line judge call a foul. They might have the right to but I have never seen one. Also the fact that line judge dont follow the play like the middle refs do means most of the time they couldnt call a foul if they wanted to. Line judges dont sprint up and down the pitch one has to stand at the back line to call offsides and you can only do that if you are even with the back line. So there purpose really is to watch the sidelines and back line...nothing else.

The middle ref pretty much as a dictatorship over the game.

Also the density of the fouls means nothing its the importance of each foul. Soccer being such a low scoring game each and every chance means the difference between winning and losing a game. So you had better be god damn certain when you call a PK that it was indeed a foul. A soccer refs can completely decide a game by awarding free kicks to team right outside the box.

You dont believe me? Ask the many of refs that get death threats for calling a PK, or were killed for their bad officiating.

But this isnt a soccer thread so lets drop that part.
 
How the hell do you pay a man 17 million dollars to miss two free throws and an easy tip-in basket?

Way to go KG.
 
[quote name='ph33r m3']How the hell do you pay a man 17 million dollars to miss two free throws and an easy tip-in basket?

Way to go KG.[/quote]

The same way you pay kobe to bad mouth his team mates and run players he doesnt like out of town.

After all kobe scored what 15 in the first and then like 8 through out the rest of the game?
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']The same way you pay kobe to bad mouth his team mates and run players he doesnt like out of town.

After all kobe scored what 15 in the first and then like 8 through out the rest of the game?[/quote]

The difference with Kobe/KG, is Kobe has proven he can show up in the 4th quarter.

Kobe absolutely had a shit game and the Celtics played great defense. KG's fouls had nothing to do with his offensive play in the 4th, because like he always does, he shoots those 17 footers. He touched the ball I think three times maybe?

He's the only "MVP nominee" who you don't want touching the ball the whole 4th quarter/crunch time. I can't remember another player like that.
 
[quote name='ph33r m3']How the hell do you pay a man 17 million dollars to miss two free throws and an easy tip-in basket?

Way to go KG.[/QUOTE]

Your hate for KG is becoming legendary. :)
 
[quote name='ph33r m3']The difference with Kobe/KG, is Kobe has proven he can show up in the 4th quarter.

Kobe absolutely had a shit game and the Celtics played great defense. KG's fouls had nothing to do with his offensive play in the 4th, because like he always does, he shoots those 17 footers. He touched the ball I think three times maybe?

He's the only "MVP nominee" who you don't want touching the ball the whole 4th quarter/crunch time. I can't remember another player like that.[/quote]


And Kobe is the only MVP award winner I wouldnt even want on my team.

Kobe has yet to prove a single fucking thing to me other than as good of a scorer he is....he is equally a bad team mate leader and over all player.

The 2 missed free throws sucked but the non foul call on Kobe's steal is what killed them. Instead of tying the game they were now down 4.

Also he had a bunch of trash fouls on him early in the game.



Honestly. I just wish Boston would hurry up and win so we can all stop talking about the Lakers. I just want the series to be done and over with.
 
[quote name='docvinh']Your hate for KG is becoming legendary. :)[/quote]

Just watching this guy is absolutely fascinating.

Maybe I think too much of him, but I see no other player besides maybe Tim Duncan who can go up against this guy. He has the basketball IQ, skills, and athleticism to take anybody off the dribble and drop 40+ a night.

That's why I think KG came up with this whole "I'm going to act crazy and hope people buy it bit" because if he acts crazy that will pysche out everybody and prove i'm the man.

Check the tapes in Minnesota, he never acted like this insane idiot, the MVP in 2004 was the real KG. He only settled for jumpers when the shot clock was dwindling down, and took out the Kings by himself, and nearly took out the Lakers.

[quote name='Soodmeg']And Kobe is the only MVP award winner I wouldnt even want on my team.

Kobe has yet to prove a single fucking thing to me other than as good of a scorer he is....he is equally a bad team mate leader and over all player.

The 2 missed free throws sucked but the non foul call on Kobe's steal is what killed them. Instead of tying the game they were now down 4.

Also he had a bunch of trash fouls on him early in the game.



Honestly. I just wish Boston would hurry up and win so we can all stop talking about the Lakers. I just want the series to be done and over with.[/quote]

How could you not want Kobe?

Now your just fuckin' crazy.

Which MVP award winner would you take over Kobe right now?
 
[quote name='heatdolphins45']I'd take Steve Nash over Kobe any day. 2 Time MVP but just has underachieving players around him.[/quote]

Yeah, I can understand that, but Nash's defense is just soooo bad now. He's still a top 2 pg, with him and Paul being really 1A/1B.
 
[quote name='ph33r m3']

How could you not want Kobe?

Now your just fuckin' crazy.

Which MVP award winner would you take over Kobe right now?[/quote]

Because he is only a scorer and thats it. He is a great video game guy and if I was doing a fantasy draft I would select him.

But in real life I wouldnt touch this guy because he is the very core of anti-team.

He is not a leader....not only is he not a leader is openly bashes his team mates and throws them under buses.

Kobe has proved that unless he has an all star cast around him his scoring is worthless. Kobe helped but Shaq won him those championships...then Kobe runs him out of town. Without Shaq the Laker flounder around like a clipped bird. Kobe demands a trade for 2 months, then says bynum, farmar, should be traded and vlad rad and vulic suck ass.

Then Bynum works on his game in the off season and starts becoming a force in the post...magically the lakers start doing well. After bynum gets hurt they go 5-5 until they get Gasol then blast off they are off again. This prompt idiot laker fans and people in the media to some how award Kobe claiming that he is now a better leader. When its clear he is still the same kobe.

Again, Kobe is most like the best scorer that ever played but he certainly isnt close to being the best NBA basketball player. He has proved that he cant win it on his own at all.

This is why he should never be compared to Jordan. Jordan won championships with fuckING NO ONE. Steve Kerr? Luke Longly? Rodman who couldnt score if his life depended on it? Pippen? H. Grant? Ron Harper who was sweet but not a game changer. Compare pippen when he was with Jordan and then when he was without.....pippen sucked without Jordan.

Kobe has only proved that he needs a all star cast.
 
C.Paul is a beast to start a team with and I'm excited to see if he can hold up for another full season with the way he plays. Guards are really starting to be the way of the future, as the big mans game is moving further away and now hitting more jump shots and even some perimeter shots.
 
[quote name='alucard8319']C.Paul is a beast to start a team with and I'm excited to see if he can hold up for another full season with the way he plays. Guards are really starting to be the way of the future, as the big mans game is moving further away and now hitting more jump shots and even some perimeter shots.[/quote]

He should have won MVP hands down.

The guy single handedly took the Hornets to the top. Lead the league in many stats and is a great scorer, passers, defender, and leader.

Its amazing how he didnt win it. But I already covered all of that so I wont bring it up again.
 
[quote name='heatdolphins45']I'd take Steve Nash over Kobe any day. 2 Time MVP but just has underachieving players around him.[/quote]

Cept he doesn't play defense.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']Again, Kobe is most like the best scorer that ever played but he certainly isnt close to being the best NBA basketball player. He has proved that he cant win it on his own at all.[/quote]

The only person I've actually seen that I'd put above Kobe as a pure scorer would be Jordan. Kobe to this day still takes some really piss poor shots that Jordan never took.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']The only person I've actually seen that I'd put above Kobe as a pure scorer would be Jordan. Kobe to this day still takes some really piss poor shots that Jordan never took.[/quote]

See the problem is this though.

Jordan would score while keeping his team in the game. Though Jordan always wanted the ball he seemed to have no qualms dishing it to Pippen or Kerr for a shot.


Kobe has a huge problem dishing it to anyone other than himself. He has always tried to force shots up regardless of if they go in or not. Yes every once and a while yes he gives up the ball but before this year he would ball hog like a mother.


Simply put. Jordan is a winner. Kobe is simply a guy who can score.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']See the problem is this though.

Jordan would score while keeping his team in the game. Though Jordan always wanted the ball he seemed to have no qualms dishing it to Pippen or Kerr for a shot.


Kobe has a huge problem dishing it to anyone other than himself. He has always tried to force shots up regardless of if they go in or not. Yes every once and a while yes he gives up the ball but before this year he would ball hog like a mother.


Simply put. Jordan is a winner. Kobe is simply a guy who can score.[/quote]

Simply a guy who can score? He's been 1st team defense for the past like 8 years. Not saying that's the end all be all, but the guy plays lock down defense a majority of the time.

The problem with this whole topic, is your comparing Kobe to Jordan and not comparing Kobe to the current NBA. Jordan was one of the top 3 players of all time in the NBA, Kobe's not going to be in that group, when he retires? Probably top 10.
 
I don't know anything about Porter, but he seems like he knows what he is talking about. Hopefully he can bring some change for the better.
 
Two oddball records:

- Celtics have tied the most home wins in the playoffs at 12. If they win the series, they'll hold the new record at 13.
- They also tied the record for most losses in the playoffs with the 1994 Knicks last night.
 
[quote name='lordwow']Two oddball records:

- Celtics have tied the most home wins in the playoffs at 12. If they win the series, they'll hold the new record at 13.
- They also tied the record for most losses in the playoffs with the 1994 Knicks last night.[/quote]

You also might want to add the Game 4 records:
-Lakers with the biggest 1st Quarter lead up by 21 points
-Celtics with the biggest comeback ever coming back from 24 points down.

This series is just kinda odd :/
 
[quote name='ph33r m3']Simply a guy who can score? He's been 1st team defense for the past like 8 years. Not saying that's the end all be all, but the guy plays lock down defense a majority of the time.

The problem wit this whole topic, is your comparing Kobe to Jordan and not comparing Kobe to the current NBA. Jordan was one of the top 3 players of all time in the NBA, Kobe's not going to be in that group, when he retires? Probably top 10.[/quote]


What? My original point was not to compare Kobe to jordan. That might have got lost in my reason for the statement.

I fully agree lock down defense means something. But not in the way the NBA awards it. Getting that award means jack shit when a guy like Chris Paul leads the league in steals and only gets 2nd team all defense.

What I am saying there is far to much downside to kobe than upside. He will score and play some D but not without crushing the confidence of all your young players, making sure the spot light is on him by demanding trades and worst of all will run any competing superstar out of town.


I dont think a lot of people realize how bad that is. They dont quite grasp that he ran the most dominate big man of modern times out of the city.

Imagination if Magic Johnson ran Kareem out of town. Stockon goes to the media and says that Malone is a bitch and cant play.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']What? My original point was not to compare Kobe to jordan. That might have got lost in my reason for the statement.

I fully agree lock down defense means something. But not in the way the NBA awards it. Getting that award means jack shit when a guy like Chris Paul leads the league in steals and only gets 2nd team all defense.

What I am saying there is far to much downside to kobe than upside. He will score and play some D but not without crushing the confidence of all your young players, making sure the spot light is on him by demanding trades and worst of all will run any competing superstar out of town.


I dont think a lot of people realize how bad that is. They dont quite grasp that he ran the most dominate big man of modern times out of the city.

Imagination if Magic Johnson ran Kareem out of town. Stockon goes to the media and says that Malone is a bitch and cant play.[/quote]

I'll ask it again,

Which MVP winner would take over Kobe right now? You said you wouldn't want him...who would you take?

Dirk?
Nash?
Garnett?
Duncan? (The 2nd best player in the league, but I doubt anyone would take him over Kobe)
Iverson?
Shaq?
 
you can definitely find coaches who would take duncan over kobe, seeing in that kobe is a horrendous teammate and notoriously difficult to deal with. that's kind of a misleading argument, a lot of those past MVPs are pretty old now. a better question would be, which one of those MVPs in their prime would you have over kobe? that being said, based on talent alone, i wouldn't take any over kobe. but lebron's not on that list.. that's a much closer comparison.
 
[quote name='ph33r m3']I'll ask it again,

Which MVP winner would take over Kobe right now? You said you wouldn't want him...who would you take?

Dirk?
Nash?
Garnett?
Duncan? (The 2nd best player in the league, but I doubt anyone would take him over Kobe)
Iverson?
Shaq?[/quote]


Right now I'll take Duncan over Kobe in a heartbeat.

He's the only on in that list that is worthy of that though. All-star or higher caliber big men means better chance of winning titles. If you go back to 1980, the only teams to win titles without an all-star big man were the Jordan teams of the 90s (Laimbeer was an all-star while a Piston, although not during the championship years). It's no coincidence that the Lakers got better with the emergence of andrew Bynum and the addition of Pau Gasol.
 
[quote name='ph33r m3']I'll ask it again,

Which MVP winner would take over Kobe right now? You said you wouldn't want him...who would you take?

Dirk?
Nash?
Garnett?
Duncan? (The 2nd best player in the league, but I doubt anyone would take him over Kobe)
Iverson?
Shaq?[/quote]

I didnt answer it because simply answering the question wouldnt do anything to my argument and I think it would just result in a "What! Kobe is way better than this guy...you obviously dont know anything."

But if your asking me in a casual way I will be glad to answer it. First...I dont really care about the MVP title. Its a very biased award that makes no sense half the time. This year Chris Paul should have won it but since the Lakers had a better record he won. No one knows if it means Most valuable player in the league...or for their team.or whatever. I would say it means best over all player that drastically makes his team better.

That would be Chris Paul because without him the Hornets are a rag tag bunch of failed projects from other teams.

Steve nash shouldnt have won 2 mvps. Its hard to convince me that he is a 2 time MVP when he can barely play defense at all. Thats like giving Ronda an award for being best Celtic when he cant hit a jumpshot to save his life.

Anyway here would be my list of people I would take over Kobe if I was building a franchise that I think would win championships well into the future. Its important to note that I am taking EVERYTHING that a player is. So Kobe piss poor 'tude is included in my picks.

Paul bottom line I would take this guy over anyone in the league. He makes T-Chann look like fucking shaq for gods sake.

Dirk for is inside outside game...he simply brings more to the table in my opinion.

I actually would take Ducan over Kobe almost any day of the week. Ducan is the best overall PF that I can remember. Defense, Offensive, team play, leadership. He has everything.


There are a couple other guys I would take but thats enough for now.

Kone is a drama queen and if I was building a team I wouldnt want to deal with that. I would let another GM deal with his off the court bullshit and throwing team mates under the bus.
 
An interesting observation about Ray Allen's daughter situation (stolen from a Celtic's forum):

On a basketball-related note, it would be interesting to know when this happened, and to what extent it affected Ray's game.

Up until the 7:31 mark of the 3rd quarter, he was 4-for-8 shooting, with 14 points, 2 rebounds, 2 assists, 0 turnovers, and 1 personal foul.

From the 7:31 point onward, he was 0-for-5, with 2 points, 0 rebounds, 0 assists, 2 turnovers, and 5 personal fouls.

Those numbers could be a total coincidence, but if they were a result of a distraction, he certainly can't be blamed.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']Right now I'll take Duncan over Kobe in a heartbeat.

He's the only on in that list that is worthy of that though. All-star or higher caliber big men means better chance of winning titles. If you go back to 1980, the only teams to win titles without an all-star big man were the Jordan teams of the 90s (Laimbeer was an all-star while a Piston, although not during the championship years). It's no coincidence that the Lakers got better with the emergence of andrew Bynum and the addition of Pau Gasol.[/quote]

:applause:

Thank you. I have been saying it all along. Kobe had little to do how good the lakers where. They basically had the same team when shaq first left and they sucked ass. Bynum gets better and then they get Gasol and all of a sudden they are a great team but Kobe steals all the credit.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']:applause:

Thank you. I have been saying it all along. Kobe had little to do how good the lakers where. They basically had the same team when shaq first left and they sucked ass. Bynum gets better and then they get Gasol and all of a sudden they are a great team but Kobe steals all the credit.[/quote]

The team from 2004/05 season is not basically the same as when Shaq left. The Lakers were being coached by Rudy Tomjanovich during the year that Shaq left instead of Phil Jackson. They picked up Brian Grant who was already 32 (old by NBA standards), Sasha Vujacic who was a rookie and only played 35 games, Derek Fisher left as a free agent, and Lamar Odom only played 64 games for the year. Also, our starting center Vlade Divac was plagued with injuries and retired after playing only 15 games in which he only averaged 3 points a game LOL! The only person you got left that was better than average with Kobe was Caron Butler who wasn't nearly as good as he is now. Chucky Atkins was decent, but he was only averaging 13 points a game with 4 assists as a guard.

Edit: I forgot to add that Kobe only played 66 games that year and Rudy Tomjanovich left for health reasons a little over halfway through the season.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']:applause:

Thank you. I have been saying it all along. Kobe had little to do how good the lakers where. They basically had the same team when shaq first left and they sucked ass. Bynum gets better and then they get Gasol and all of a sudden they are a great team but Kobe steals all the credit.[/quote]

They didn't have the same team when Shaq left though. Tomjonavich left, Hamblen came in 1/2 way through the year. Butler wasn't the All-Star you see now. Atkins sucked, Divac was ass, Odom was ass, Walton was horrible, and Brian Cook was their starting PF.

Before Bynum went down with the injury, they had the best record in the NBA, and Kobe steals all the credit because nobody on his team would get the shots they get if Kobe wasn't double teamed.
 
[quote name='ph33r m3']They didn't have the same team when Shaq left though. Tomjonavich left, Hamblen came in 1/2 way through the year. Butler wasn't the All-Star you see now. Atkins sucked, Divac was ass, Odom was ass, Walton was horrible, and Brian Cook was their starting PF.

Before Bynum went down with the injury, they had the best record in the NBA, and Kobe steals all the credit because nobody on his team would get the shots they get if Kobe wasn't double teamed.[/quote]


:rofl:

That assessment of the Lakers was classic.
 
[quote name='yukine']I don't know anything about Porter, but he seems like he knows what he is talking about. Hopefully he can bring some change for the better.[/QUOTE]I'd say Porter is okay, but he didn't really get the Milwaukee Bucks winning (they had their best seasons under George Karl). The main reason Phoenix hired him was because Steve Kerr and Porter are very good friends (I remember Steve Kerr saying Porter was one of the nicest guys he ever met, when playing for the Spurs together).

As for the whole NBA Official thing going on, I believe it.
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...ing-referees-stern-morrissey,1,4190641.column

I also believed there was one Official, known as Hugh Hollins, who would purposely make my Bulls lose. Any time he was the Official during a Bulls game, the Bulls would lose. I use to yell at the TV when he was officiating.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']What? My original point was not to compare Kobe to jordan. That might have got lost in my reason for the statement.

I fully agree lock down defense means something. But not in the way the NBA awards it. Getting that award means jack shit when a guy like Chris Paul leads the league in steals and only gets 2nd team all defense.

What I am saying there is far to much downside to kobe than upside. He will score and play some D but not without crushing the confidence of all your young players, making sure the spot light is on him by demanding trades and worst of all will run any competing superstar out of town.


I dont think a lot of people realize how bad that is. They dont quite grasp that he ran the most dominate big man of modern times out of the city.

Imagination if Magic Johnson ran Kareem out of town. Stockon goes to the media and says that Malone is a bitch and cant play.[/QUOTE]

Kobe stole that spot from Shane Battier IMO
 
As the Lakers make their way to Boston, the Celtics are still stranded in Los Angeles.

Both of the Celtics' charter planes reported mechanical issues at LAX Monday morning. Because of the issues, the team could not take off.
The Celtics were scheduled to take off at 10:15 L.A. time, but according to reports, they are still at the California airport waiting to leave.

Both teams are getting ready for Game 6 at the T.D. Banknorth Garden Tuesday night. Boston is hoping to finally close out the series after Sunday's nail-biting Game 5 loss at the Staples Center.
Click to expand...


Im surprised they couldn't just hop a ride to Boston in Sam Cassell's spaceship.
 
[quote name='bardiya27']Im surprised they couldn't just hop a ride to Boston in Sam Cassell's spaceship.[/QUOTE]

LOL That was reeeeeeeeeeeeeally
not
funny.

Ya, LAX is trying to screw over Boston. BOTH planes? Come on, that has conspiracy written ALL over it.
 
[quote name='oNeWiNgEdAnGeL']LOL That was reeeeeeeeeeeeeally
not
funny.

Ya, LAX is trying to screw over Boston. BOTH planes? Come on, that has conspiracy written ALL over it.[/quote]

You know what's even funnier than that?
sacramento.kings_article.jpg
 
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