We had to import RPG Thread XII from Europe

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Ya'll still care about 'dat Persona fighter?

http://andriasang.com/comy78/

Move list and this stolen semi-translation from GAF:

[quote name='Chrono Helix']
Yu Narukami (an all-rounder who can fight at any distance)
After pressing D while using a standing D attack, or doing a jumping D, he'll be able to fight independently of his Persona.
電光石火 (aka Swift Strike) can be used to counter attacks.
EX Zio puts the enemy into shocked status, and prevents him from moving.

Chie (shines at close-range rushdown)
暴れまくり (aka Rampage) cancels into 脳天落とし (aka Skull Cracker), which breaks guard. (I might be misinterpreting this)
Power Charge is a super, and buffs her damage (can stack up to 3 times)
Agneyastra is her ultimate attack, and if guarded brings you very close to the enemy. (Yeah I'm definitely misinterpreting this lol)

Yousuke (speediest in the game!)
In the air he can cancel any of his specials into another special. He can cast Tentarafoo, which is unblockable and causes panic status. While in panic status the enemy's left/right controls are reversed. After casting Sukukaja (his ultimate) his dashes are considered attacks (might be misinterpreting that last part).

Yukiko (her fans allow her to pressure the enemy from long range)
Dia restores her health as you hold down the button.
Fire Boost increases the damage of fire attacks and is stackable.
Fire Break makes your next fire attack unblockable.

Kanji (gets in close and uses grappling moves)
His normal grab and 串刺しだぁ！ (aka Skewer) command grab have extra range. 耐えてみやがれ！ can grab enemies unless they're crouching. As the enemy takes damage from his D attacks, they get closer to getting put in shocked status which prevents them from moving.[/quote]
 
Noooo! Link is dead. Sounds cool though. So is it running on the BB engine then? Mentions of "D attacks" makes me think so. If so that's fantastic, because that means that like BB, each character in Persona will be super unique. Thanks for the infos.
 
[quote name='Zmonkay']Noooo! Link is dead. Sounds cool though. So is it running on the BB engine then? Mentions of "D attacks" makes me think so. If so that's fantastic, because that means that like BB, each character in Persona will be super unique. Thanks for the infos.[/QUOTE]

It still works for me, even after clearing my cache. Try doing a copy n' paste, it might be like famitsu links. If it doesn't work, I'll just rehost the images.
 
[quote name='PapaJoeBear']Is there going to be a remake for both of the persona 2 games on the psp, or just the one?[/QUOTE]

No announcement has been made for Eternal Punishment yet.
 
[quote name='distgfx']It still works for me, even after clearing my cache. Try doing a copy n' paste, it might be like famitsu links. If it doesn't work, I'll just rehost the images.[/QUOTE]

C/P worked, thanks! Odd how few moves they have (especially after how many each character in BB had).

Oh, and for you Suikoden fanboys, your prayers have been answered!
http://andriasang.com/comy88/

Looks to be on PSP though... so we'll prolly never see it here :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySAlckdIaic&feature=player_embedded
 
[quote name='2DMention']Gave up on beating Zeromus on Final Fantasy IV and just moved on to Interlude.[/QUOTE]

Interlude was a piece of junk. After Years is interesting, but quickly escalates to something much less manageable than the final battle on IV.
 
[quote name='thelonepig']Interlude was a piece of junk. After Years is interesting, but quickly escalates to something much less manageable than the final battle on IV.[/QUOTE]

Yea it seems boring so far.

I think I might give up on this game and try to go back to LoH: TitS and beat that before Persona 2 comes out.
 
[quote name='Zmonkay']C/P worked, thanks! Odd how few moves they have (especially after how many each character in BB had).[/QUOTE]

Nah, it looks close to the same amount in terms of specials and supers. It's Arc, so I'm sure it'll be great and get a lot of support. It probably will have pricey DLC, though, if it ever gets any. Oh yea, I also read somewhere that they might include original characters in the game. Are there really that few characters in Persona 4? They're already taking one from Person 3 IIRC.
 
[quote name='Zmonkay']Looks to be on PSP though... so we'll prolly never see it here :([/QUOTE]

Trollnami :bomb: With Metal Gear Rising at vaporware status, what the hell do they even release anymore? How is there no new portable Castlevania in the pipeline yet?
 
[quote name='Zmonkay']Oh, and for you Suikoden fanboys, your prayers have been answered!
http://andriasang.com/comy88/

Looks to be on PSP though... so we'll prolly never see it here :([/QUOTE]

No prayers answered here, sounds like this is another spin off like Tierkreis. Boooooo
 
I just ordered a copy of Xenoblade Chronicles from Zavvi yesterday and it was dispatched yesterday as well. I ordered it along with some other goodies to use the 5 off 50 coupon they have floating out there. Cant wait to play it.
 
[quote name='heavyd853']Also its on a handheld, which means its probably going to be ass[/QUOTE]

Some of the best RPGs in recent years are on portable
 
[quote name='62t']Some of the best RPGs in recent years are on portable[/QUOTE]

Even though most of them have been remakes of some kind, they're are some great original titles on the portables.

Definitely blows whats been getting released on consoles.
 
[quote name='62t']Some of the best RPGs in recent years are on portable[/QUOTE]

Name a suikoden game on portable that was good.
 
[quote name='heavyd853']Name a suikoden game on portable that was good.[/QUOTE]

PSP-Gensou.Suikoden.I.II-jpn.jpg


Bam. Your loss if you believe that portables somehow make for inherently inferior game experiences.
 
He's just saying that the handheld Suikoden games in particular haven't been great, and replying with the one that was a remake/port of the console games isn't a great comeback.
 
[quote name='2DMention']Yea it seems boring so far.

I think I might give up on this game and try to go back to LoH: TitS and beat that before Persona 2 comes out.[/QUOTE]

I started playing LoH.

I'm impressed.
 
[quote name='Jesus_S_Preston']He's just saying that the handheld Suikoden games in particular haven't been great, and replying with the one that was a remake/port of the console games isn't a great comeback.[/QUOTE]

Did you even read what I wrote after the picture? Suikoden I & II are exactly the same game on PSP as they were on PS1. Nothing about a game being on a handheld guarantees that it's going to be worse than a console entry, yet I don't doubt that there are people who wouldn't have given Suikoden I and II a second look if they'd debuted on PSP instead of PS1. JRPG fans can keep a console afloat for years after mainstream games stop releasing for it, but look at the PSP. 99.9% dead even with a steady stream of quality games still releasing in Japan.

Saying that something is "probably going to be ass" because it's on a handheld is pretty different from saying that the new Suikoden is going to be bad because Tierkries was bad (which I can't confirm or deny, I've never played it.)
 
[quote name='fwbweux']

Saying that something is "probably going to be ass" because it's on a handheld is pretty different from saying that the new Suikoden is going to be bad because Tierkries was bad (which I can't confirm or deny, I've never played it.)[/QUOTE]

Prestons actually right. I said that because tierkries was one of the worst offerings a suikoden game has ever had, so for handheld new suikoden titles they sit at a solid 0/1. Besides how is that even different from what you said in any meaningful way, the point is still made.

Furthermore, I said "probably" because there are, as you said, no guarentees that being on handheld is a sure guide to failure. However, with the current evidence for handheld suikodens (even suikodens in general), hoping for a good game would be irresponsible.
 
[quote name='2DMention']Got to a boss and am having trouble in LoH TitS, so it's time to grind. Waiting on my PSP to charge.[/QUOTE]

I need to go back to LoH. I got stuck somewhere and just kept forgetting to look how to get unstuck.

Not sure if I'm going to grab Persona 2 at launch. I'm not sure if I can deal with an old school jrpg right now.
 
For an RPG Tierkries wasn't bad, wasn't good either and boring enough for me only to play a few hours of. I wouldn't say it was terrible. With that said for a Suikoden game then yeah, it's bad, probably the worst, even worse than SIV IMO.

I wouldn't mind it coming out on PSP so much (since I can just hook it up to my TV anyway) but having it be part of that Tierkries infinate worlds bullshit is not cool. I don't understand why Konami thinks this is so hard. Just pick some remote land in the main Suikoden title never before expolred, it can even be another prequel, I wouldn't care. Throw in some returning characters like Vivi & Jeane and as long as it's a halfway decent story I would love it. Making a Suikoden game without being part of the main cannon is missing the point of why fans like the series so much.

Also, just to be nit-picky there was one more Suikoden game on handhelds. Suikoden Card Stories for GBA, not sure if it's good or not:

cover_Card.jpg
 
[quote name='heavyd853']Prestons actually right. I said that because tierkries was one of the worst offerings a suikoden game has ever had, so for handheld new suikoden titles they sit at a solid 0/1. Besides how is that even different from what you said in any meaningful way, the point is still made.

Furthermore, I said "probably" because there are, as you said, no guarentees that being on handheld is a sure guide to failure. However, with the current evidence for handheld suikodens (even suikodens in general), hoping for a good game would be irresponsible.[/QUOTE]

It wasn't that bad, other than the lame story, easy combat and lack of runes it was perfectly acceptable. It actually managed to exceed my expectations, of course those where set rather due to Suikoden 4 and Tactics.


[quote name='62t']Some of the best RPGs in recent years are on portable[/QUOTE]

Absolutely, Radiant Historia, DQ6, Pokemon, it's been a nice year of the DS.
 
[quote name='Rodimus']For an RPG Tierkries wasn't bad, wasn't good either and boring enough for me only to play a few hours of. I wouldn't say it was terrible. With that said for a Suikoden game then yeah, it's bad, probably the worst, even worse than SIV IMO.
[/QUOTE]

Agreed. As DS RPGs go, Tierkries was a pretty good game. It certainly didn't live up to the better main series games, but if you're willing to look past that it's a very enjoyable game.
 
[quote name='distgfx']Nah, it looks close to the same amount in terms of specials and supers. It's Arc, so I'm sure it'll be great and get a lot of support. It probably will have pricey DLC, though, if it ever gets any. Oh yea, I also read somewhere that they might include original characters in the game. Are there really that few characters in Persona 4? They're already taking one from Person 3 IIRC.[/QUOTE]

There are still 4 open slots on the character select screen; but there are a few main characters from P4 that haven't been revealed as being fighters in the game yet. If there are any new characters, it may just be one or possibly two.

As far as P3 is concerned, just the one (Aegis) has been revealed so far. Though, she didn't look playable at TGS, because all the videos I saw, no one chose her nor was her moveset on that chart.
 
Ok, I think I'm at the end of LoH TiTS and beat a guy at the bottom of the tower or whatever it is, then I beat a robot with two round things, then the round things became his hands and fought it again and it kicked my ass. I don't feel like fighting that thing again, so I think I'll give up.
 
Moving along in Demon's Souls and I have mixed feelings about its "difficulty." There's nothing inherently difficult about the game mechanically -- dodge here, sidestep, attack, move on -- it's more the fact that the unknown can and probably will kill you (as you are oblivious to attack patterns, scripted events, etc..). This I think is its most exciting feature and is why it feels so adventurous walking around each level.

But dying really, really sucks. Having to play through the same shit just to fix a small mistake you made on a boss fight is just archaic. I guess fans say that's the reason it feels so rewarding, but for me, that happiness isn't a sense of reward, I'm happy because I can finally go back to enjoying the game -- no wonder it feels good. The periods where you die repeatedly on a boss is IMO the worst aspect of the game.

A meager boss checkpoint, really, is all I ask for (not for dying to mobs, that's actually cool). Yes, levels do have shortcuts to get to the boss, but it takes a good 3-4 minutes to cut through whatever is in your way. So it's like they did remember to put in the concept of such a checkpoint, but I'd honestly rather have a 5 minute loading screen than to fight the same enemies over again.
 
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Stuff like that is why I really don't see myself getting into it, I've always thought that yes games should be challenging but the super hard games never seemed all that fun to me, especially when I'm getting older and have more things taking up my time (job, family, etc.). I.E. I recently got and love Disgaea 4, which is a complex and challenging, but not super hard game.
 
Also am I the only one who would love to see a company like Nippon Ichi or Atlus develop a long overdue Lunar sequel? That's a series that really deserves a second life, not craptacular ports (I'm looking at you, PSP version that ruined the songs and made Ghaleon incredibly cheap...).
 
[quote name='Erad30']Stuff like that is why I really don't see myself getting into it, I've always thought that yes games should be challenging but the super hard games never seemed all that fun to me, especially when I'm getting older and have more things taking up my time (job, family, etc.). I.E. I recently got and love Disgaea 4, which is a complex and challenging, but not super hard game.[/QUOTE]

There are much harder games than DS, it's just this one aspect I find annoying more than rewarding.

In truth the bosses are the easiest part of the game, and I really shouldn't be dying on them, lol.
 
"Tough" games like DS are simply unforgiving. Everyone here is capable of beating that game and hundreds of thousands surely have. You walk up to a dude with a tentacle head and he stuns you and kills you. You try again and approach him from a distance, he shoots projectiles faster than you and once again you die. Finally you just bait the stun attack (press O) and kill him on recovery. Anyone can do this, I could stand over my grandma's shoulder and she could get it on her first try. These games just take a bit of patience, and it's the unknown that makes DS so interesting -- not the mechanics. But if you were playing a game like NG on master difficulty or Muramasa on sudden death, I'd consider that pretty hard (and then there's competitive games that can takes months to years to master -- that's just a whole other level of difficulty).

You can figure pretty much anything out in DS in less than a few attempts. In recent memory I've spent longer on levels in Super Meat Boy, or that one chapter 11 boss in FFXIII. There are more mechanically demanding bosses in World of Warcraft than anything DS makes you perform.

Just because you die to learn in DS doesn't mean it's an incredibly hardcore game.
 
i think the only controller throwing moment of DS for me was fighting that giant boss, the second one in 1-2, because i made one mistake half way through and he killed me for it.
then again, i don't think i got farther than 2-1; i just got bored.

but i never thought of it as like, "this crap is impossible and there's no way i can ever get past it" like i have playing the more hardcore shoot-em-ups. like gradius 3 arcade edition. the third level is impossible. (i also think shmups are meant to be cleared on 1 credit; using continues is cheesy.)
 
[quote name='Cheska19']Persona 2 get! Who else picked it up?[/QUOTE]

I did. But, chances are I'm probably not going to get around to playing it for a while. Plus, I think I'd better get back to Persona 4 before starting Persona 2: Innocent Sin, haha.
 
I'm picking up Persona 2 later this week. Been wanting to play Innocent Sin for a while now.

[quote name='panzerfaust']Anyone can do this, I could stand over my grandma's shoulder and she could get it on her first try. These games just take a bit of patience, and it's the unknown that makes DS so interesting[/QUOTE]

Making a perfect souffle everytime takes patience, practice and trial n' error. After you master that souffles are still hard to make, only thing that changed is you got better. My Grandma can sit over my shoulder and instruct me how to make a souffle and I'll probably get it right with the correct instruction, doesn't mean it's not hard.

[quote name='panzerfaust']Just because you die to learn in DS doesn't mean it's an incredibly hardcore game.[/QUOTE]

All these similar terms: tough, hard, hardcore, difficult, etc. How do we measure and compare? Is there some spaz handbook I missed that ranks all these terms so I know how to post correctly next time I want to say a game is either tough or hard?
 
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[quote name='Cheska19']Persona 2 get! Who else picked it up?[/QUOTE]

I did, but I doubt I'll have a chance to play it for at least a couple weeks.
 
[quote name='Rodimus']

Making a perfect souffle everytime takes patience, practice and trial n' error. After you master that souffles are still hard to make, only thing that changed is you got better. My Grandma can sit over my shoulder and instruct me how to make a souffle and I'll probably get it right with the correct instruction, doesn't mean it's not hard.
[/QUOTE]

Not a terribly good analogy. It probably took your grandma a lot of effort to learn that recipe. To kill a mob or boss in DS it takes 2-3 run-backs (or none) AKA 10 minutes max. DS is not mechanically difficult as anyone is more than physically capable, and it is not conceptually difficult (like a rubix cube, or souffle) -- you don't have to be impressively smart or clever to figure things out.

There are twitch-based games that are hard like a hack-n-slash or what have you, and there are conceptually difficult games like a puzzle game. Some can be both, like Brood War :cool:

If you have patience, you can beat Demon Soul's. I know that's a broad term and you want to say things like, "lol well with patience you can go to the MLB if you wanted" but I'm talking strictly patience. As in you approach, you die, you understand. Very little talent if any required, which is why I think DS is improperly labeled as a game for skilled players. It is an awesome RPG though :bow:
 
souffles aren't really that difficult either. if I can make it then it's certainly not that difficult. the process is not hard either. i made a cheese one on my first shot and made 2 other more complex ones (pumpkin and chocolate) on the first try as well.

much less difficult than perfect low and slow BBQ.

@panzerfaust: i think you overestimate the skill level of video game players. to us it appears conceptually and mechanically simple, but there are a lot of players who simply haven't developed that yet. i feel like you are more likely to find those players in the RPG community.
 
I'm pretty terrible at gaming, really. I got stuck on some Portal puzzles :drool:, and I still drop combos in Street Fighter more than I pull them off.

I think everyone could agree DS isn't hard by the definition I'm at least proposing. It's just slower paced and rewards death with victory (knowledge, that is). If you're impatient it may definitely seem brutal.
 
[quote name='panzerfaust']Not a terribly good analogy. It probably took your grandma a lot of effort to learn that recipe.[/QUOTE]

Weather you think the anology is good or not isn't the point, but since you mentioned it, learning to make a souffle probably takes less time and effort then beating DS. My wife learned to make a kick ass chocolete souffle after only 2 tries, but she's a natural cook. I don't think she could ever beat Demon Souls.

[quote name='panzerfaust']If you have patience, you can beat Demon Soul's. I know that's a broad term and you want to say things like, "lol well with patience you can go to the MLB if you wanted" but I'm talking strictly patience.[/QUOTE]

Not sure what you're trying too say...? I totally agree DS takes patience.
 
I'll chime in I guess, games (especially current gen ones) have really conditioned us to believe that the amount you die is directly proportional to the challenge or difficulty of a game. For instance Contra for the NES is a hard game, any new player is going to die constantly, does that mean you can't learn the game and become good enough to beat it with minimal deaths, sure, but I wouldn't call Contra easy simply because you can get better at it. And basically if we accept that most people see a correlation of number of deaths to a game's difficulty it shouldn't be surprising that people call Demon's Souls difficult.
 
[quote name='panzerfaust']I'm pretty terrible at gaming, really. I got stuck on some Portal puzzles :drool:, and I still drop combos in Street Fighter more than I pull them off.[/QUOTE]
you drop combos?
many people can't even do combos, let alone know that combos exist.
 
[quote name='icebeast']I'll chime in I guess, games (especially current gen ones) have really conditioned us to believe that the amount you die is directly proportional to the challenge or difficulty of a game. [/QUOTE]

Yeah it probably has a lot to do with that. People called PoP 2008 very, very easy because there wasn't a game over screen. Not that the game was all that challenging, but you get the point.

[quote name='kainzero']you drop combos?
many people can't even do combos, let alone know that combos exist.[/QUOTE]

lol I'm aware 99% of gamers don't know anything, but the 1% I'm talking to are the ones who play games so much they enjoy visiting a board about them.

that doesn't mean were all superhuman, but we can get through games that offer basic challenges -- when most gamers probably put games down half way through, let alone even knowing what Demon's Souls is.
 
So, difficulty aside (though I'm currently not sure if Etrian Odyssey III is easier than the previous games)... anyone here get into the Diablo III beta?
 
I put down Demon's Souls because I knew exactly what kind of game it is. I can't play games to kill time anymore (same reason why I don't play RPGs as much as I used to.) I need a game that will give me the most enjoyment out of the few spare hours I have. Demons Souls would've been perfect when I was young and had more time to play. Over the past year I've been gravitating torward games that last only 10-20 hours as opposed to a 50+ hour RPG.

If you ever see me playing PSU again that could possibly mean the wife and kids left and I lost my job.
 
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