RPG-Thread #3 is extremely linear and does not evolve the genre

[quote name='willardhaven']III and IV are awesome on DS, you can turn up the battle speed to maximum if you think it's slow can't you?[/QUOTE]
If you turn the battle speed up, it just makes the ATB faster, it doesn't make battle animations faster, so it feels slower. Like I feel there's too much fluff.

[quote name='icebeast']No, just no. Romancing SaGa (PS2) was terrible. Like not as bad as Unlimited SaGa but still bad. It started off fine but the longer I played it the worse it became because I realized how terrible most of the design decisions in that game are. I mean I don't want this to turn into a total rant but lets just say that having the game advance without you knowing about it (i.e. quests are only available during a certain part of the invisible in-game progression) and the only way to tell that is by checking how many tutorials are unlocked to you in addition to enemy scaling made that game disgusting.[/QUOTE]
Nah, you just don't get SaGa. Once you do, it's interesting. I always wondered why people hated on SaGa Frontier because I thought it was confusing at first... but once you get to know the world and how the quests work and everything, it's a real interesting play. Asellus had a really good story, I thought.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']The problem with the DS versions of the III and IV are that they increased the increased the difficulty for the Western Markets (like they did back in the 8/16-bit days).[/QUOTE]
Uh, what? America got the easy version of FFIV. And I don't think they touched FFI or FFVI's difficulty here.
 
[quote name='Krymner']So I guess FF5 would be next? Blech. One of my least favorites. This is the part where blueshinra comes in and says how much she likes FF5 and everyone else just rolls their eyes and shakes their head..[/QUOTE]
[quote name='icebeast']Actually I kind of like FF5, I mean sure the plot and characters aren't great especially in comparison to its predecessor FF4; but in my opinion the epic fun of the Job system kind of made up for it.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for saving me the hard work, icebeast :lol: I'm not sure I agree with you about FF4's characters/plot (in general, I thought FF4 was depressing), though Edge was pretty badass.
 
Final Fantasy V was a great game! I really enjoyed the characters and the world. The whole "two parallel dimensions that become joined" thing was almost as epic as Kefka destroying the world in VI. I also like the pastel-heavy color palette, all those pinks and purples and sea greens give it a different flavor than the other SNES FF games.

I also have a fair bit of nostalgia about V since I originally played the fan-translated ROM back in the '90s. The series was still super niche and the whole prospect of peeking behind the curtain at an untranslated Japanese game seemed so mysterious and exotic. Exciting times!
 
Bleh, FFV. The job system was cool in theory, but at some point I was getting whooped and I needed some skills from other jobs, and it was going to take me a loooot of grinding to get them. So I gave up.
 
Made it to the last boss in Persona and got my ass handed to me. I guess I'll have to grind for the first time. I can't remember the last time I actually negotiated with a monster and was able to get its spell card.
 
[quote name='pete5883']Bleh, FFV. The job system was cool in theory, but at some point I was getting whooped and I needed some skills from other jobs, and it was going to take me a loooot of grinding to get them. So I gave up.[/QUOTE]

This. I actually enjoyed FFV, but the same thing happened to me, so I never finished it.

Anyone else doing a quick replay of Mass Effect before 2 comes out end of the month? I'm debating doing Hardcore for the achievement, or playing on casual just so I can plow my way through...
 
[quote name='ChibiJosh']Made it to the last boss in Persona and got my ass handed to me. I guess I'll have to grind for the first time. I can't remember the last time I actually negotiated with a monster and was able to get its spell card.[/QUOTE]

I was the same way. My Personas were about 10-20 levels lower than I was.
 
[quote name='willardhaven']I bought it when I was 10 thinking it would be like Secret of Mana... It was the first turn-based RPG I played correctly (I used to just run away from fights and try to progress the story).[/QUOTE]

To me, progressing the story as fast as possible is the correct way to play RPGs. My theory is, if you need to fight non-story battles, you might as well spend that time fighting the strongest enemies possible and leveling up as quickly as possible.

But yeah, Chrono Trigger is far and away the best pre-"Cinematic Revolution" RPG there is. FFIV has aged horribly, and FFVI isn't all that good either. Still have to play V, but I do like me a good job system.
 
[quote name='dr_illingsworth']To me, progressing the story as fast as possible is the correct way to play RPGs. My theory is, if you need to fight non-story battles, you might as well spend that time fighting the strongest enemies possible and leveling up as quickly as possible.[/QUOTE]

Oddly enough that is one of the things that I really liked about Chrono Cross and the Star Level system, that game somehow all but eliminated the grind since you only got some stat bonuses up to a cap set by your current Star Level and then you had to up that again by killing a boss before grinding on monsters would net you anything, and the game was balanced in such a way that it never felt like you needed to fight any pointless battles to cap out those stats.
 
[quote name='icebeast']Oddly enough that is one of the things that I really liked about Chrono Cross and the Star Level system, that game somehow all but eliminated the grind since you only got some stat bonuses up to a cap set by your current Star Level and then you had to up that again by killing a boss before grinding on monsters would net you anything, and the game was balanced in such a way that it never felt like you needed to fight any pointless battles to cap out those stats.[/QUOTE]
Damn, I forgot how many good ideas CC had. It's a crime that the ability to run from boss battles isn't in every JRPG.
 
[quote name='Rei no Otaku']Lies.[/QUOTE]
No, FF4 HAS aged horribly.

There's so much crap that comes out of nowhere and a lot of stuff just doesn't make sense.
 
whooo! I did it!! I beat DS2!!

got damn mother freakin shin megami tensei games with their 6 hour final dungeons and 2 hour final boss.

Im totally burnt out now X_X

but the good news is!! finally time to bust this out:

d0034443_01054317.png


as of tomorrow I will be TV less, so I cant be playing any good RPGs in my backlog until I gets me an xrgb-3
 
[quote name='kainzero']No, FF4 HAS aged horribly.

There's so much crap that comes out of nowhere and a lot of stuff just doesn't make sense.[/QUOTE]
*sticks fingers in ears* Lalalalala!
 
grrrr~!!! so like I got the 'Chaos" ending on DS2.

Im tryin to hit up youtube to see the other ending and the different bosses and stuff...

only to notice all the playthrus also got the chaos ending!! aint nobody have video footage of the Law path!!!

I really wanted to see how theyre different too!!! :cry:
 
Just got Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker, and so far so good. I know I will be spending way too much time with the synthesis system. 3 out of 4 hours have just been training monsters.
 
*totally ignores all the FFIV hate


Got a bit tired of DQ8, so I jumped back into Nocturne. Then I went back to DQ8. Then back to Nocturne.

Damn, I love RPGs. I just wish I had more time to play them.
 
[quote name='blueshinra']*cups hands to mouth* FINAL FANTASY FOUR HAS AGED HORRIBLY![/QUOTE]
Not gonna work. That game will always better than every other Final Fantasy, and most other RPGs.
 
I never beat FF4. I played it at a friends house when I was younger, and I got stuck at some boss probably at least halfway through, and I just never went back to it.
 
[quote name='kainzero']There's so much crap that comes out of nowhere and a lot of stuff just doesn't make sense.[/QUOTE]

Sounds like a typical JRPG to me.
 
[quote name='Rei no Otaku']Not gonna work. That game will always better than every other Final Fantasy, and most other RPGs.[/QUOTE]
Having more in-game deaths than all the other FF games doesn't make it better than them.
 
[quote name='Mr. Beef']Having more in-game deaths than all the other FF games doesn't make it better than them.[/QUOTE]

Wait I'm fairly sure only one main character actually dies in FFIV, which means it has the same number of deaths as FFV and FFVII. Sure FFIV has a lot of close calls for tons of its characters but somehow almost everyone is miraculously ok.
 
[quote name='icebeast']Wait I'm fairly sure only one main character actually dies in FFIV, which means it has the same number of deaths as FFVII. Sure FFIV has a lot of close calls for tons of its characters but somehow almost everyone is miraculously ok.[/QUOTE]
"Close calls" or not, the emotional impact of them was drained as soon as Rydia came back all grown-up.

"TEEHEE, I WASN'T EATEN, I GOT TRANSPORTED TO A MAGICAL FANTASY LAND."

Yeah, no thanks.
 
[quote name='Mr. Beef']"Close calls" or not, the emotional impact of them was drained as soon as Rydia came back all grown-up.

"TEEHEE, I WASN'T EATEN, I GOT TRANSPORTED TO A MAGICAL FANTASY LAND."

Yeah, no thanks.[/QUOTE]
I don't give a fuck where she went. It gave us adult Rydia, and adult Rydia is hot.
 
Actually other than Rydia getting older after getting thrown off a boat and eaten by Leviathan (though you don't actually see that so all you know is she got thrown off the boat along with Yang) I thought her's was the most believable. Like most of the other "close calls" are just kind of ridiculous as somehow somebody or something was their to give them a hand when they needed it most. Examples:
Yang being saved from Tower of Babil by Sylphs or Cid getting rescued by Dwarves after jumping off an airship with a bomb.
 
Wait wtf.. IV was and is the best not opinion fact. How is it a bad thing that chars in that game got their asses kicked? Its so much better than what a lot of RPGs try to pull off today where they do a major fight and after every one is ok and it was no big deal. Everything about that game was class, besides Golbez is still a pure badass. You spoony bards.
 
[quote name='LostRoad']Wait wtf.. IV was and is the best not opinion fact. How is it a bad thing that chars in that game got their asses kicked? Its so much better than what a lot of RPGs try to pull off today where they do a major fight and after every one is ok and it was no big deal. Everything about that game was class, besides Golbez is still a pure badass. You spoony bards.[/QUOTE]
:applause:

Well said.
 
[quote name='LostRoad']Wait wtf.. IV was and is the best not opinion fact. How is it a bad thing that chars in that game got their asses kicked? Its so much better than what a lot of RPGs try to pull off today where they do a major fight and after every one is ok and it was no big deal.[/QUOTE]

Don't get me wrong I like FFIV, it's probably my second favorite FF behind FFVI. With that said though I'd be fine if people were getting their asses kicked in battle, but that never happens in FFIV, almost every "near death" happens from somebody trying to save everybody else from a near death non-battle situation seemingly sacrificing themselves in the process and all the characters mourn the loss... but then 1-2 hours later somehow the dead character is completely alright.

The closest thing to a battle death that you have in FFIV is the character that actually dies and he isn't actually killed by the enemy he dies because he cast a spell that was way more powerful than he could handle and that ends up killing him after Golbez escapes.
 
The only person I thought to die but didn't was Cid. I never thought that any of the others died off by what they did. Rydia and Yang where washed over board, it never hinted they where dead, and Yangs wife even says that he is okay and tells you not to worry.

As for them not getting beat up in battles, Cecil gets beat up a lot in that game, Edge also gets put in his place. I like the fact that they chars wern't so over powered that people like Porom and Palom did what they did to save the rest. Tellahs role I thought was dead on, he saw his chance and took it. To me it seemed they kept the cast the under dogs in a very convincing way. Not one step in the quest was easy for them, something I wish was better done today by devs.

IV and VI are both outstanding, and do what a lot of RPGs today don't, focus on the story. While IV may have pulled on the heart strings a little much, it wouldn't have worked if you didn't care about the cast. It seems to many RPGs today try and get by with flashy graphics and redundant ass plots that's a six year old thought up.

For me the only JRPG that stands out this gen is ToV. I have found myself moving more and more to WRPGs, which while the plot may be lacking in some they give you the option to make your own story which is enjoyable in its own right.
 
[quote name='LostRoad']The only person I thought to die but didn't was Cid. I never thought that any of the others died off by what they did. Rydia and Yang where washed over board, it never hinted they where dead, and Yangs wife even says that he is okay and tells you not to worry.

As for them not getting beat up in battles, Cecil gets beat up a lot in that game, Edge also gets put in his place. I like the fact that they chars wern't so over powered that people like Porom and Palom did what they did to save the rest. Tellahs role I thought was dead on, he saw his chance and took it. To me it seemed they kept the cast the under dogs in a very convincing way. Not one step in the quest was easy for them, something I wish was better done today by devs.

IV and VI are both outstanding, and do what a lot of RPGs today don't, focus on the story. While IV may have pulled on the heart strings a little much, it wouldn't have worked if you didn't care about the cast. It seems to many RPGs today try and get by with flashy graphics and redundant ass plots that's a six year old thought up.

For me the only JRPG that stands out this gen is ToV. I have found myself moving more and more to WRPGs, which while the plot may be lacking in some they give you the option to make your own story which is enjoyable in its own right.[/QUOTE]
That's EXACTLY how I feel right down to the bit about ToV and WRPGs. Glad I'm not alone.

Now back to more Dragon Age...
 
Tried getting into Dragon Age but I just can't. I'm about 4 or 5 hours in but it's doing nothing for me. I wonder why Mass Effect is the only WRPG I find enjoyable.
 
I put it in spoilers before but I'll put it without them this time Yang also "almost dies" in the Tower of Babil when he goes to stop the Super Cannon, and it explodes. But he is rescued by Sylphs from the Sylph Cave.

Here is the script for that part of the game:
---
The Tower of Babil
---

Rosa: It's too dangerous!

Cecil: Yang!

Yang: I will take care of things in here. The rest of you get out!

Rydia: Are you mad!?

Cecil: It's too late, Yang.

Yang: Forgive me.

Yang kicks the party out of the room.

Cecil: Yang!? Yang!

The doors close before Cecil can get in.

Yang: If you should see my wife again, tell her to live enough for us both.

Kain: Don't be a fool! Open the door!

Rydia: Yang!

Rosa: Please Yang, don't throw your life away!

Yang: It has been an honor fighting with you.

Cecil: Open the door, Yang!

Yang: Gaaah!!

Cecil: Yang!

The room explodes. Yang succeeds in stopping the cannons from firing.

Also I agree the characters are really likable and I of course care for them but I always thought that the instances where party members were sacrificing themselves to save others felt a little hollow because somehow those characters kept getting out of danger by what would best be explained as a deus ex machina moment.

Also I agree about JRPGs it feels like the companies haven't really gotten a strong control over the technology so their games haven't seemed as good this gen, not that WRPGs haven't shown some problems such as the ones found in Mass Effect and even Dragon Age on the consoles doesn't run perfectly; but it seems like they still have a better grasp on how to use the technology effectively.

Oh and I managed to think of one other game this gen that I really loved outside of ToV, I really enjoyed Valkyria Chronicles.
 
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When I mean FF4 has aged horribly, I mean that if you did not play it within its era, you can't really appreciate it.

There's a number of things my friends and I have constantly brought up in jest. Here are some of the highlights:

1: In the beginning, Cecil busts in and asks whether it was right to kill people. All of a sudden this guy, Kain, just comes in and says "YO MAN I GOT YOUR BACK." Who the hell is he and how does he know about anything?

2: The crystals. You don't know that they do anything for the longest time. And then after all four or captured, you come to the revelation that there are actually 4 underground! And then when you get there, 2 are already captured, wtf? Where were they?

3: The dwarven crystal. Rydia comes back and you finally beat Golbez and everyone's happy. Then all of a sudden, his evil writhing hand travels in an elaborate S-Pattern and SLOWLY grabs the crystal. How the hell did he get back there in the first place?

4: Finally, when all the crystals are stolen, what do you do? You go to the FREAKIN MOON.

---

I also like FF4. Heck, I even bought and enjoyed After Years, although I haven't quite finished it yet. But man, in retrospect, that plot is full of holes.
 
[quote name='Rodimus']Tried getting into Dragon Age but I just can't. I'm about 4 or 5 hours in but it's doing nothing for me. I wonder why Mass Effect is the only WRPG I find enjoyable.[/QUOTE]
I love it. Already on my 6th play through.
[quote name='kainzero']When I mean FF4 has aged horribly, I mean that if you did not play it within its era, you can't really appreciate it.

There's a number of things my friends and I have constantly brought up in jest. Here are some of the highlights:

1: In the beginning, Cecil busts in and asks whether it was right to kill people. All of a sudden this guy, Kain, just comes in and says "YO MAN I GOT YOUR BACK." Who the hell is he and how does he know about anything?

2: The crystals. You don't know that they do anything for the longest time. And then after all four or captured, you come to the revelation that there are actually 4 underground! And then when you get there, 2 are already captured, wtf? Where were they?

3: The dwarven crystal. Rydia comes back and you finally beat Golbez and everyone's happy. Then all of a sudden, his evil writhing hand travels in an elaborate S-Pattern and SLOWLY grabs the crystal. How the hell did he get back there in the first place?

4: Finally, when all the crystals are stolen, what do you do? You go to the FREAKIN MOON.

---

I also like FF4. Heck, I even bought and enjoyed After Years, although I haven't quite finished it yet. But man, in retrospect, that plot is full of holes.[/QUOTE]
There are problems with FFIV, but everything you mentioned is trivial and just plain silly.
 
Been grindin' in Persona for like 5-6 hours. Have 3 people equipped with their "ultimate personas". About time to try to tackle the final boss again.

Edit: Bitch is dead, yo!
I probably could've faced it a lot earlier. I only had to heal one character once throughout the whole battle. Things are made a lot easier when you use magical guards every turn.
 
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@ Icebeast Thanks for the script, I ( of course ) didn't recall it off the top of my head so I am sure my first play though, I did think he was dead at that point. Though I do recall if you talk to his wife after that point is when she tells you not to worry, but you are right on that one.

@Joe Stop beating people up in Tekken and finish the After Years.. like now.. go..do it.

@ Rod, I have a buddy who couldn't get into it ether. Game isn't for everyone, but for me it wonderful, haven't beat it as much as Rei ( only 4 times here ) I think what did it so much for me about DA was the chars. I give a shit about each one of them, and really really enjoy the script.
 
So here's a question about Fallout 3. I just finished Galaxy News Radio. Should I go back and do everything in Megaton first? I feel really underpowered right now. Everything is kicking my ass, and I'm constantly running low on ammo and supplies.
 
[quote name='Rei no Otaku']There are problems with FFIV, but everything you mentioned is trivial and just plain silly.[/QUOTE]
No it isn't, particularly what he said at the beginning about playing FFIV "within its era". The very first time I played FFIV was 2006, and it felt dated and melodramatic. I'd played FFV and FFVI before that (neither within their eras either, though), and both were more refined in their own ways; I enjoyed both of them, too.

The biggest problem I had with the game was that there was no subtlety whatsoever in scenes where it would've been a great benefit. The bits where everyone dies (or "dies"), everyone comes back, and especially when you learn of Golbez's true identity hit you like a sack full of bricks. And I won't even get into the issues I had with the ability system...

I think to really appreciate FFIV, you need to do so strictly from a historical perspective. That, as well as personal nostalgia, I can understand.
 
Dragon Age is some seriously zzzzzzz stuff.
Bioware masters of the 7000 page backstory you dont give a shit about.

Also masters of terrible animations.

I liked ME, but DA is boring me to death. Its that stupid setting its in. I'm so sick of this mid-evil fantasy shit.

I was going to get ME2 on launch day but because of this stupid fiasco with the DLC and fucking consumers over, im not going to get it until its sub 40 dollars.
 
[quote name='Rodimus']Tried getting into Dragon Age but I just can't. I'm about 4 or 5 hours in but it's doing nothing for me. I wonder why Mass Effect is the only WRPG I find enjoyable.[/QUOTE]

The same thing happened with me, except it was more like 2-3 hours.

I realized another reason I don't like WRPGs is because they have too many open areas to explore. When you're given a large open area, the most efficient way to explore it is the "lawnmower algorithm." I much prefer exploring path-based dungeons, where you get to a fork in the road, choose one path, and put the other choice(s) on your not-yet-explored stack. Especially when your RPG intuition tells you which path leads to the dead end with a chest.
 
[quote name='LostRoad']I give a shit about each one of them, and really really enjoy the script.[/QUOTE]

Really? You really care about Alastar? Gods how I hate that fucker. Why must every Bioware game after KOTOR have a Carth? ME had Kaiden, DA has Alaster, and Jade Empire had, well, the entire game was kinda a Carth to me. Only Bioware game I didn't love (and actually kinda hated).
 
I actually thought Morrigan was funny. Alaster acted like a panzy for most of the game play. It was actually annoying. I do not use him in my party that much either. Oh well, I am only at the human's part of the quest so I still have sometime before I beat it.
 
Morrigan is a riot. Next time through I'm going to play more evilly and try to get her to jump mah bones. As it stands, she seems to enjoy taunting me constantly.
 
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