Tecmo Bowl Throwback League Disbanded

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But the thing is, the defensive AI is terrible. If you are not personally covering the receiver, he will be left wide open by at least 5 yards, 9 times out of 10. CPU defenders are utterly useless, thus necessitating the ability to switch.
 
[quote name='Matt Young']But the thing is, the defensive AI is terrible. If you are not personally covering the receiver, he will be left wide open by at least 5 yards, 9 times out of 10. CPU defenders are utterly useless, thus necessitating the ability to switch.[/QUOTE]

CPU defenders can be completely inept at times, no question. The risk you take picking the NT if you plan to blitz the QB is that you may get burned for a TD if you miss. If you take a LB you can take on run/pass plays pretty well and you should be able to cover 3-4 WR with a good CB/S.

The real trick is figuring out who is your money player on Defense. If you have one you can cover just about anyone from anywhere (almost).
 
[quote name='Matt Young']But the thing is, the defensive AI is terrible. If you are not personally covering the receiver, he will be left wide open by at least 5 yards, 9 times out of 10. CPU defenders are utterly useless, thus necessitating the ability to switch.[/QUOTE]

Matt, come on dude. You're really being unreasonable. If you would take a step back and look at your argument, you would see it essentially boils down to "I did not know what Tecmo Super Bowl was". Everything in this game plays exactly as the developer intended it. If there are things you don't like, then you have to say that you simply don't like Tecmo Super Bowl. With all the options to try this game out before buying it (emulation, XBL demo, videos, etc), there's no excuse for not knowing how it plays. If you bought it without knowing anything about it, that's just foolish.

If you want more "intelligent defenders" and more offensive/defensive options, just play Madden and forget this game exists. Comparing your criticism of this to my criticism of MLB 10 is also not accurate. My main criticisms of MLB (and I'm leaving rubber banding AI out of it because that can be dealt with...and I've been trying) have to do with sloppy programming that causes free agents to be duplicated in fantasy draft leagues...or the fact that if you press "select" while playing in Tropicana Field, your entire PS3 freezes. That's not the way the developer intended it. That's them being lazy.

Tecmo Super Bowl doesn't have problems like that...especially to be as dramatic as calling anything "game breaking". The only reasonable thing you can complain about in TSB is quitters not being given a loss and any issues in coding that may make the game lag (though we're not even sure of that one). But really dude, being upset that you can't change your defender after the play is crazy. That's how the game is. That's like me being upset that Mario can't shoot people. If you don't like it, you just don't like the game. Period.
 
Like I said, though, they changed a lot of stuff about the game anyway. So what would be the harm in making a few simple changes that make the game better but don't alter the core gameplay?

As for "I did not know what Tecmo Super Bowl was", that's half right. I had never played the game before. However, I did weeks' worth of reading up on both the original and the remake, so I had as much of an idea of what I was getting into as anyone who hadn't played the game could. As for the demo, it was worthless. It lasted all of 1 series at most... maybe just 3 plays.

I don't care if it's the same as the original. The original was poorly designed in certain areas. Fixing those things could only make the game better. Following the actual rules of football- not calling a touchback a safety- would be a good start. And responsive controls are always a key component of a good video game. The controls in this game could stand to be tightened up.

Like I said, it's a good game. But countless "classics" have been re-released as the same core game, but with little tweaks and added features. There is no reason for this game not to have the same.
 
But they didn't CHANGE anything about the gameplay. What you're saying isn't fair at all. They changed how it looks as a "look how far we've come" kind of gimmick, but I think they knew most people buying this game wanted the 2D. And they added online play because it would have been a wasted opportunity not to. But that has nothing to do with how the game plays (lag notwithstanding). Playing people online is no different than having a buddy sitting next to you playing 17 years ago. THAT'S the point.

I will acknowledge that the SNES version of the game from 1993 is hardly a step up from the 1991 NES version. They added in very minute things like weather, 3 season "franchise" instead of 1, and a few new animations. But the bulk of the game remained unchanged. So, to me, I consider this to be a 1991 game...and I'm fine with that.

You can say what you want about the game being "poorly designed", but you have to consider what you're comparing it to. If you're comparing it to other games of that time, this is the best there was. There's a reason people have been playing it in online emulation leagues for the past 10 years. I won't deny, it plays differently from other football games, but that's part of the appeal. As others have stated, there is a strategy to this game. If you're measuring it up against today's football games, then it's not really something that can hold your interest.

EDIT - Also, while I'm enjoying the debate, I don't want the purpose of this thread to get taken over. So, in an effort to help wildcpac keep up with the actual games that are getting played, I'm reposting this for js1: Week 11 Eagles @ Cardinals 10-3.
 
But... I am comparing it to games of its time. Madden at the time had more features and graphics where you could actually distinguish your player from the opposition when they're close together. And, based on reviews, both games average around 70% each.

I'm just saying that Madden apparently was far ahead of the curve when it came to, well, everything. Is Madden better than Tecmo? Honestly, I have no idea. I haven't played that year's Madden in probably 10 years, since I got it as one of many cheap Genesis games.

I've said several times that Tecmo is fun. I have no unreasonable expectations. It was still worth $10. Nothing more.

That being said, I may be able to squeeze in some games today. I'll be playing the Reach beta. If I'm not in a big party, I'll leave and play Tecmo. If I am, there may be a delay, but I can probably still play.
 
[quote name='Matt Young']But... I am comparing it to games of its time. Madden at the time had more features and graphics where you could actually distinguish your player from the opposition when they're close together. And, based on reviews, both games average around 70% each.

I'm just saying that Madden apparently was far ahead of the curve when it came to, well, everything. Is Madden better than Tecmo? Honestly, I have no idea. I haven't played that year's Madden in probably 10 years, since I got it as one of many cheap Genesis games.

I've said several times that Tecmo is fun. I have no unreasonable expectations. It was still worth $10. Nothing more.

That being said, I may be able to squeeze in some games today. I'll be playing the Reach beta. If I'm not in a big party, I'll leave and play Tecmo. If I am, there may be a delay, but I can probably still play.[/QUOTE]

I got your message, I started downloaded the reach beta (which I'm bound to get my ass kicked playing) and if I see you online we'll game. It will be a give and take, I'll beat you at tecmo and you can crush me at Halo!
 
Okay. I'll be on Reach in a half hour or so. I will, however, likely be joining some friends I know personally in a party. 3 are on now, maybe more if they have their friends in there. I guess I'll find out.

I do want to play with CAGs, but these guys have been harassing me ever since I got the beta on Thursday.

"Aw, come on Young... we know you got them beta codes. Can't you share some for an old friend? I paid for you to get into that strip club!"

"Aye Young, man, why you gotta be on that Reach beta while we're all sittin' here playing Firefight? That's like dangling a rock on a string in front of a crackhead."
 
[quote name='ZForce915']Have we agreed as a group not to use the NT exploit on each other or is everything game when we play?[/QUOTE]

What is the NT exploit?
 
fuck yeah. I'm going to use it every play to score. Like 7 touchdowns a quarter, man. It'll be wild.

Actually... I didn't play the original game. I have heard the term mentioned once or twice on GameFAQs, but I have no idea what it is, exactly.
 
[quote name='ubernes']What is the NT exploit?[/QUOTE]

I think he means where you evade the Center and just dive and stuff any play that pulls straight back. I use it sometimes, but I'd hardly call it an exploit. If the offense calls a play where the line shifts, you're screwed. I've even had times where against a good offensive line, I actually get blocked. That should be strategy just like anything else. If the defense is killing you with it, start calling different plays.
 
Eh. Doesn't sound like a problem. And unless it's a blatantly obvious running play or within 10 yards, I almost never control a lineman. LB or CB all the way.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']I think he means where you evade the Center and just dive and stuff any play that pulls straight back. I use it sometimes, but I'd hardly call it an exploit. If the offense calls a play where the line shifts, you're screwed. I've even had times where against a good offensive line, I actually get blocked. That should be strategy just like anything else. If the defense is killing you with it, start calling different plays.[/QUOTE]

Well, I normally pick the NT because Howie Long is my best linemen and I have, on occasion, avoided the center and either rushed the QB's pass or gotten to him but it has never consistently worked enough to call it an exploit, imo. But maybe I'm not doing it correctly either.

The 'call a different play' defense doesn't necessarily work though from what I've read. For one, the Raiders don't even have a shotgun play, and that seems to be the easiest counter to it so I would be shit out of luck if someone got it working on me.
 
Man, maybe that is why Pure Apathy was able to get through my o-line every single time and either sack Favre or send him back 10 yards before the throw. Not that I think he'd exploit any glitch, but maybe he just figured out a move that works and didn't know about any so-called glitch, just as I did not.
 
[quote name='ubernes']The 'call a different play' defense doesn't necessarily work though from what I've read. For one, the Raiders don't even have a shotgun play, and that seems to be the easiest counter to it so I would be shit out of luck if someone got it working on me.[/QUOTE]

Actually, I'd argue that a shotgun play would be the worst play to counter it because it becomes obvious really quickly. What I said was any play where the o-line shifts will stop it. A play action play, a sweep, etc. Just anything where they don't drop straight back and leave huge gaps in the line. I've got at least 3 plays in my playbook that it won't work on.

It's not like the "choose the right player and easily block a field goal" situation that everybody knew about (although for whatever reason, I can't get it to work like it did back on the NES...but that's a good thing). At least here, you have the option of running a different play.
 
NT glitch in my book is cheating. If any of you are experience the other team doing it and doing it more often than not. Please report it to me. Player will get 1 warning. Anything more than that and it's a forfeit.
 
[quote name='wildcpac']NT glitch in my book is cheating. If any of you are experience the other team doing it and doing it more often than not. Please report it to me. Player will get 1 warning. Anything more than that and it's a forfeit.[/QUOTE]

I tend to agree, the only way you'll see me using it is if you have a play that runs straight up the gut with the RB. If you use that play even once then I will use the NT "glitch" every time you line up in that formation.
 
Jesus Christ! Are you kidding me? So now we're arguing which players on defense are ok to control? It doesn't work every time. How the fuck is that a glitch? Ok, what if I think it's "unfair" that your DB is super fast and can get to any of 4 receivers by the time I throw the ball. That's a glitch. We should force people to only cover their assigned man. If we're going to turn this shit into nothing that resembles Tecmo Super Bowl, you might as well kick me out now. I'm not going to play the game in some arbitrary gray area where "some things are ok" and "some things are not". Doing that caters to people who are less experienced with the game. And that's bullshit.
 
[quote name='ZForce915']I tend to agree, the only way you'll see me using it is if you have a play that runs straight up the gut with the RB. If you use that play even once then I will use the NT "glitch" every time you line up in that formation.[/QUOTE]

Thats exploiting the system in my book especially when teams cannot change their playbooks online. So if I am playing you and I have a running play up the middle which you can instantly read by the formation then you can glitch. Then when I have drive again and it's a running down I can only choose 1 out of 3 plays instead of 4. That gives you an unfair advantage of being able to guess 1 out 3 plays now on a short down drive or just trying to get extra yards for a field goal.


NT glitch will not be tolerated.
 
[quote name='wildcpac']Thats exploiting the system in my book especially when teams cannot change their playbooks online. So if I am playing you and I have a running play up the middle which you can instantly read by the formation then you can glitch. Then when I have drive again and it's a running down I can only choose 1 out of 3 plays instead of 4. That gives you an unfair advantage of being able to guess 1 out 3 plays now on a short down drive or just trying to get extra yards for a field goal.


NT glitch will not be tolerated.[/QUOTE]

Except for the fact that many running and passing plays also share similar formations for the specific purpose of outthinking your opponent. So, it's still guesswork on what your opponent is calling. But why should I expect you to be able to outthink anybody. Go ahead, water down your league for the retards on CAG who can't figure out how to stop it. Good times.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']Except for the fact that many running and passing plays also share similar formations for the specific purpose of outthinking your opponent. So, it's still guesswork on what your opponent is calling. But why should I expect you to be able to outthink anybody. Go ahead, water down your league for the retards on CAG who can't figure out how to stop it. Good times.[/QUOTE]

I said in the original op that excessive use of it will not be tolerated. You are right, I cant out think anybody. Thats why I am playing .700 ball on MLB The Show 2010 with a 15 something win streak. Quit being a complainer and play the fucking game. All you do on these boards is whine and bitch.

So everybody else in this league is a Retard now?
 
[quote name='wildcpac']I said in the original op that excessive use of it will not be tolerated. You are right, I cant out think anybody. Thats why I am playing .700 ball on MLB The Show 2010 with a 15 something win streak. Quit being a complainer and play the fucking game. All you do on these boards is whine and bitch.[/quote]

Yeah, you use fucking gray area terms that have no meaning. "excessive use"...as defined by who??? I'm telling you, I'm going to play the game the way I want to play it. If you want to kick me out, kick me out. The reason I speak my mind is because I could give two shits about what you think of me. If you don't like it, do something about it.

[quote name='wildcpac']So everybody else in this league is a Retard now? [/QUOTE]

[quote name='n8rockerasu']Go ahead, water down your league for the retards on CAG who can't figure out how to stop it.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, don't bother comprehending a sentence or anything.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']Yeah, you use fucking gray area terms that have no meaning. "excessive use"...as defined by who??? I'm telling you, I'm going to play the game the way I want to play it. If you want to kick me out, kick me out. The reason I speak my mind is because I could give two shits about what you think of me. If you don't like it, do something about it.[/QUOTE]

Clearly you could give 2 shits about anybody in the leaugue since you called it filled with retards. Sorry but I am not going to go on some power trip over a videogame. Like I said before, shut the fuck up and play the game. All you do is bitch and complain about everything.
 
I don't really agree with the heatedness (?) of the argument but I think n8 does have a point. Again, I don't know if what I'm doing would be considered 'a glitch', I played 2 people and mainly used Howie Long, my NT, because he's one of my better defenders on my team and I don't think either person had an issue with it. So it is a bit wack for me to be 'banned' from using him when someone else I'm playing may have a crappy NT that they wouldn't mind giving up using as they zip around with a quick DB.

I would say let's just leave it alone until it becomes an issue. No one has even complained about it happening in game yet, when the time comes we can all get into a tizzy over it.
 
[quote name='wildcpac']Clearly you could give 2 shits about anybody in the leaugue since you called it filled with retards. Sorry but I am not going to go on some power trip over a videogame. Like I said before, shut the fuck up and play the game. All you do is bitch and complain about everything.[/QUOTE]

Ok, and I'm going to play how I want. So, enjoy it. :)
 
[quote name='ubernes']
I would say let's just leave it alone until it becomes an issue. No one has even complained about it happening in game yet, when the time comes we can all get into a tizzy over it.[/QUOTE]

And it hasn't been an issue yet. All I put is that excessive use will not be tolerated.
 
[quote name='wildcpac']And it hasn't been an issue yet. All I put is that excessive use will not be tolerated.[/QUOTE]

So, when you come up with your biased arbitrary ruling on what "excessive" mean, we'll be kicked out of the league. Haha, awesome. You should run for office.
 
[quote name='ubernes']Now that this is sort of settled, anyone on my schedule around for a game later today? I have a couple hours to kill.[/QUOTE]

Now or later today? haha. I can do now. Looks like you've got a home game against me. So, I'm guessing our game will be in 3D. See, even that I'm cool with, as it's fair to allow the home team to decide how they want to play it (considering you can choose weather as well...just call it homefield advantage). Just, god damn, don't tell me which defenders I'm "allowed" to use, lol. That's garbage.
 
Yeah, I can get on now. I see the Giants and Bucs are on too and I just sent them XBL messages but nothing yet so I guess they'll have to wait if they want to play.

1-1 Raiders, here we go!
 
[quote name='wildcpac']I am playing .700 ball on MLB The Show 2010 with a 15 something win streak.[/QUOTE]

But do you have 91 fights and 13 hat tricks? I think not, good sir!
 
Raiders @ Giants, Week 2, Raiders win 7-0.

We got disconnected with about a minute left right after I picked it on his 20-30 yard line. I don't know if he quit, he got pretty unlucky throwing 3 picks against me but regardless I don't think the outcome was going to be different given the time and field position. GG.
 
[quote name='ubernes']Raiders @ Giants, Week 2, Raiders win 7-0.

We got disconnected with about a minute left right after I picked it on his 20-30 yard line. I don't know if he quit, he got pretty unlucky throwing 3 picks against me but regardless I don't think the outcome was going to be different given the time and field position. GG.[/QUOTE]

Power went out. I got big time unlucky. 3 picks and a fumble on the 10 yard line.
 
[quote name='wildcpac']Power went out. I got big time unlucky. 3 picks and a fumble on the 10 yard line.[/QUOTE]

lol, yes the fumble too, I forgot about that. :D

I finally adjusted to your sweep to the right, but it took me a bit too long. I was waiting for you to just break one.
 
[quote name='ubernes']lol, yes the fumble too, I forgot about that. :D

I finally adjusted to your sweep to the right, but it took me a bit too long. I was waiting for you to just break one.[/QUOTE]

I didn't know we were playing a league game. I do want a rematch.
 
[quote name='wildcpac']I didn't know we were playing a league game. I do want a rematch.[/QUOTE]

oh ok, sure. I can't seem to find N8 anyways.
 
[quote name='ubernes']oh ok, sure. I can't seem to find N8 anyways.[/QUOTE]

I'll be back on later. Power and AC went out and had to turn the power back on but the AC isn't working.
 
This league has barely started and it's already ugly. And if I'm going to be called a retard for trying to play a fair and balanced game then fuck it....count me out.

I line up under center maybe 25% of the time, and it's when I think I can stuff a run. I avoid the glitch and detest the plays where someone doesn't even get the opportunity to control their player before being tackled.

Hell, even stating I like the NES equivalent of this game better (less fat smudge graphics and really excellent stat tracking) got me told off. It's fucking ridiculous.
 
People seem to be very opinionated on this game. It's just a shame that the discussion did not remain civil. I mean, Nate and I disagree about 75% of things regarding this game, but we never had any bad feelings toward each other even with our disagreements.
 
Does anyone ever have problems with the wrong plays being selected? I have this one play that's a toss to the left and my FB leads the way with one of my linemen and it works awesomely because usually it's in relatively open space with blockers in front, but 50% of the time I choose it the blockers never make it there and my RB looks to be heading in the opposite direction. Haha, I'm starting to think it's an entirely different play all together.

I don't think the play is necessarily being countered either because there still isn't a ton of traffic and I usually gain 5 yards are so out of it when it goes bad, but the actual play works so much better. Any ideas?
 
I don't think running plays should be allowed in this league. I can't believe you'd resort to such cheap tactics. Quite frankly, you disgust me.
 
[quote name='Matt Young']I don't think running plays should be allowed in this league. I can't believe you'd resort to such cheap tactics. Quite frankly, you disgust me.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, are you using the 4 running plays trick? :lol:
 
[quote name='Matt Young']People seem to be very opinionated on this game. It's just a shame that the discussion did not remain civil. I mean, Nate and I disagree about 75% of things regarding this game, but we never had any bad feelings toward each other even with our disagreements.[/QUOTE]

Well, N8 is definitely being very disagreeable in this thread. He's told you, Matt, in no uncertain terms that your criticisms of this game are invalid. This game is perfect and anyone who has problems with any aspect of it are wrong, in his eyes. That got old after one post, let alone fifty or however many times he did it. And that's to say nothing of his responses to Wildpac.

Still, just because one guy is arguing a lot doesn't mean the thread or league have gone downhill. :p
 
[quote name='eastx']Well, N8 is definitely being very disagreeable in this thread. He's told you, Matt, in no uncertain terms that your criticisms of this game are invalid. This game is perfect and anyone who has problems with any aspect of it are wrong, in his eyes. That got old after one post, let alone fifty or however many times he did it. And that's to say nothing of his responses to Wildpac.

Still, just because one guy is arguing a lot doesn't mean the thread or league have gone downhill. :p[/QUOTE]

I was arguing for a point that I believed in. I still do. When I see something that I don't agree with, I speak out against it. If somebody else can make a strong case that disproves mine, I'll reconsider my stance. But that's not what was happening. I was just being told "how it's going to be".

Anyway, without escalating anything again, I had a great game with ubernes (no lag at all). I really feel bad for him though because I know he's had trouble hosting games, and for some reason, he can't connect to anybody. This SUCKS for him because he's ending up always playing as player two. I beat him 24-6 (though we did play in 3D), but I'm sure the game would have been closer if he had been able to rightfully host the game.

Based on other sports games I've played, my best guess for why this is happening is because his NAT isn't open (I asked him and he said he had no idea). I can't remember exactly how to change it because I set mine up so long ago, but I'm going to look into it, and anybody else who knows more about it, please try to help.

I will say though, that both of us lined up at NT a few times in the game, and it didn't provide any advantage whatsoever. There were plenty of instances where the player got blocked, and then you were out of the play completely. Because of this, guess what, we stopped lining up at NT. I can't stress enough that it IS possible to stop. Considering it a glitch is asinine.
 
hmm. I think everyone just needs to calm down a bit... The game is exactly the same it was, and if you don't love it, that's your choice. To me, it's exactly what I expected and I have no complaints.

as far as the NT "glitch"... it's like any other glitch in these sports games, I consider them all defensible. When I played what ended up being an exhibition against the Raiders, his best player on D is Howie Long, but he doesn't get through all the time.

let's just play some games, have fun, and relax.
 
I pictured Destro speaking that post while lounging on a beach, joint in one hand, Red Stripe can in the other. But I also pictured him doing so as a black man with dreadlocks, when I know he's a white guy who I'm pretty sure has a shaved head.

This is what years of insomnia can do to a young man's brain.

[quote name='n8rockerasu']I was arguing for a point that I believed in. I still do. When I see something that I don't agree with, I speak out against it. If somebody else can make a strong case that disproves mine, I'll reconsider my stance. But that's not what was happening. I was just being told "how it's going to be".
[/QUOTE]

Nate, it sounds like you were referring to the glitch talk. I think Paul was talking about the whole new vs. old deal.
 
[quote name='Matt Young']I pictured Destro speaking that post while lounging on a beach, joint in one hand, Red Stripe can in the other. But I also pictured him doing so as a black man with dreadlocks, when I know he's a white guy who I'm pretty sure has a shaved head.

This is what years of insomnia can do to a young man's brain.[/QUOTE]

I pictured Destro saying it in a tuxedo t-shirt, because it says like...I want to be formal, but I'm here to party too. Because I like to party, so I like my Destro to party.
 
LOL... too funny.

I am white, I do shave my head, I do party.

I also am mellow... no need for drama.

party on dudes.
 
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