The Jerry "The King" Lawler Wrestling Topic

Why is that bad news? They gave up being an alternative to WWE and have become a federation with has beens, bad gimmicks, wasted opportunities, no long term growth strategies, and more important than all of that, a promotion centered around being just like the WWE, only with no-name talent and shittier in-house gimmicks/angles.

There's no surprise why people aren't buying their PPVs. They suck. They should drop down to 6 a year for starters, focus on wrestling matches, and meaningful angles. They have none of that.

For example, I can't *wait* to see Gail Kim come a skippin' down to ringside tomorrow night like she's 100%, despite being mauled by Awesome Kong. I also can't wait to see Abyss do the very same thing, even though he surely ate a trillion tacks on Sunday. He always ends up no-sellin' that shit by Thursday.

TNA has promise, but promise can easily be squandered. Tune in Thursday to see how so.

Shit, at least (and I'm reluctant to say this and give Zen Davis an erection ;)) ROH has clearly defined their promotion as a wholly different product compared to WWE and TNA.

I'm kiddin' Zen. Have a sense of humor.

EDIT: I wonder what they'll do to spike buyrates:
1) Do that dumbass King of the Mountain match
2) Do that dumbass reverse battle royal/fight for the right match
3) Do that dumbass gauntlet title match
4) Bring in an out of shape WCW guy. I hear Hugh Morrus is available.
 
[quote name='JaytheGamefan']Very slightly under a decade ago, but your point's pretty valid. There's some fairly new (and bad) TNA news today - their buyrates have plummeted, and they now just have 1-2% of their Impact viewing audience paying for their PPVs.[/QUOTE]

You know as much of a TNA mark I am..... TNA has only asked themselves for this to happen. Honestly most PPVs this year are not worth the $30 to order since most of the time the following happens:

A- TV and PPV both relying on far too much outside interferance during matches. I find myself these days during PPVs looking at my watch counting the seconds before I shout "run in is coming right about... now." 92% of the time I'm nearly dead on too... and again this is during PPVs that I'm watching during the live broadcast.

B- PPVs overloaded with gimmick matches. I don't mind gimmick matches when used RIGHT. But when you have entire cards with gimmick match upon gimmick match. Hell TNA has one PPV that is an gimmick match all on its own - Lockdown. Seriously do we really need an entire PPV of steel cage matches then on top of that at least half of them have their own gimmicks within that gimmick. Such as there just HAS to be at least one blindfold match during Lockdown despite the fact that each year's blindfold match is worse than the previous year's blindfold match.

Hell let me lay out a gimmick match that TNA might love if its pitch as a gimmick match. It involves a person wrestling another person in a ring. One is a face. One is a heel. There is a ref to officiate the match. Pinfalls occur when a person is pinned on the mat and the ref counts to three. Outside interferance/breaking the rules/etc will lead to a disqualification. There might even be a title on the line every so often in said match. And every once in a while we might even throw in an extra gimmick to this gimmick such as it being... oh... it being tag team where its two on two.

And the name for this gimmick... it would be called a wrestling match. You heard it right. A god damn mother fucking wrestling match. A big concept... but I think that even our beloved TNA bookers who love gimmicks might just love this gimmick if its pitched to them as a special gimmick match instead of it being.... well.... an "ordinary" wrestling match.

C) The continual WWE bashing. Seriously. Shut up TNA. We get it. "WWE sucks/Cena sucks/HHH fucked Steph/Vince McMahon is the devil/etc." Good. We heard ya. NOW SHUT THE fuck UP ABOUT IT and worry about your declining product.

D) The continual push of talent used to be from "up north" while the rapid decline of TNA home talent. Joe was right during his shoot... TNA doesn't need more people from the WWE coming in. TNA has a locker room full of talent that they should be doing a far better job pushing. And any home grown talent TNA is pushing right now for the most part is giving super lame gimmicks. See Sonjay Dutt for a perfect example of this. Or Jay Lethal.

E) Having a gimmick suitcase on a poll match to determine who will be the next contenders to the championships but one suitcase has a pinkslip.... yet not mention that we won't find out the actual results until the following Impact.

And from the taping spoilers we won't even get that this week. Instead we get that info the following week where we find out that Scott Steiner no less is getting an X Division title shot..... IS TNA JUST RANDOM BOOKING SHIT NOW??? SCOTT STEINER = X DIVISION TITLE SHOT???? WHAT THE BLOODY fuckING HELL ARE THEY SMOKING IN NASHVILLE?????

I could go on and on.... but I think this alone makes more than enough of a point. Like I said I'm still a TNA mark.... but at least I'll be honest about the problems with the company. Unlike two marks on YouTube named Bill and Doug who jizz over everything TNA regardless if its actually good or bad for the company.
 
I, for one, welcome the demise of TNA. That thing was doomed as soon as Jeff Jarrett got involved... oh wait.

Anyway, as soon as TNA seemingly inevitably folds, another promotion will spring up in its place hoping to take some of the wrestling pie.
 
TNA's business plummeting could be bad news for the industry as a whole because it could easily take way the one company that was able to get a national TV deal after WCW's death, and make the most inroads of any post-WCW startup groups.

One potential upside to their business clearly failing is that it could FINALLY shake up Dixie Carter and make her realize that serious, positive, long-term changes need to be made. None of this "let's make a NEW GIMMICK MATCH, THAT'LL FIX THINGS!" bullshit - a long-term plan for both the wrestlers and the company as a whole need to be crafted, because treading water isn't something TNA can afford to do. They've done it for far too long, and now they're paying for it.
 
[quote name='JaytheGamefan']Phrostbyte, I wasn't pissed off by you posting four times in a row, just slightly annoyed by it. Hell, the amount of mockery of Tenay in that post outnumbered anything I said about you by at least a 30:1 ratio.

As for ROH "not being able to get by" just relying on their existing fanbase, well, they, unlike TNA, and most other wrestling organizations, actually turns a profit, so they clearly can just get by with their existing fans, and are simply trying to expand their fanbase. They don't need to do it, but they're trying to do it in a slow, smart manner, which is great in the long-run.[/quote]

Yeah I know... No worries homie.
 
I agree that losing TNA would deal a severe blow to the wrestling industry as a whole and it's not something I want to see. If this trend in declining PPV buys continues, I expect the investors to make a move and change management, which is something I expect the younger wrestlers to agree with. I also expect the veterans to be let go, or at least forced to agree to a lesser deal than their current one.

My key complain about TNA is that their look and production is too professional wrestling. I hated the look of WCW and TNA looks like an updated version of TNA and it reeks of Nashville. I think if they changed their lighting around, their product would be a lot easier to get into because as it is, the asthetics of a TNA show just make my eyes hurt.

[quote name='Demolition Man']Unlike two marks on YouTube named Bill and Doug who jizz over everything TNA regardless if its actually good or bad for the company.[/quote]
Those douchebags are The Mana Knight of TNA.

Anyway, speaking of TNA, Motor City Machine Guns shoot on Beowolf in 3D and Mario Galaxy! Chris Sabin also plays acoustic Guitar Hero!

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km2uGBCG5nc&eurl=http://tnawrestling.com/[/media]
 
[quote name='Zen Davis']I'm not sure. I think the comments about "superstars" could technically hit a nerve with HHH and could hurt any kind of WWE run in the same manner that RVD suffered during his WWE run because after further consideration, the comments went beyond the klique and shit more on a variety of wrestler than any specific person. If HHH feels he fits those comments, could he possibly hold a grudge?


True. Punk hasn't had any 5-star matches in the past 9 months but however, the situation for him is quite different than someone like Kazarian/London/Kendrick.

The way I see it, the WWE is grooming Punk to be one of their next big breakout stars, the same way they're grooming Jeff Hardy on RAW and MVP on Smackdown. The difference between Punk and the other two is that while Hardy and MVP are getting rubs from Triple H and Benoit, Punk hasn't gotten a rub from anyone.

In fact, on the contrary, Punk has been the one giving rubs to Morrison, The Miz, Big Daddy V, and now seemingly Shelton Benjamin. What's that say about Punk? Does he not need a rub? Or are they using him to technically train the other guys who are still somewhat green(which he has done before when he was running the ROH school)?

Personally, I think they're saving Punk until later down the line when they move him to Smackdown/Raw and he gets to mingle with the bigger stars and put on more meaningful matches with more experienced workers. Until then, he fits his own role perfectly. He got a subtle nod at the Survivor Series a couple of years ago when he was matched up with The Hardys and DX and he's finally working with Kane. But other than that, when he has really been given the chance to go at it with the top tier of the WWE? To me, it's all just a part of the grooming process, which is something the WWE has been severely lacking for years.

Now how does this fit with Joe? If Joe is entirely welcome in the WWE and his comments haven't done anything to hurt his reputation there, I think that Joe can completely fit in the WWE. He'll have to tone his style down, true, but I'm sure he'll be able to bust out his stiff strikes during the big matches (Even Punk gets to throw a couple of stiff kicks during the course of his matches). He won't have the same role as Punk since Joe is a known face on TNA and Spike TV and Punk was a nobody when he came into the WWE. It'll be like when Monty Brown came into the WWE. He didn't get put through development. Neither will Joe. Of course Joe will have to pay his dues, but during the Wrestlemanias and other big shows, I'm sure he'll be able to bust out.

The other thing I have to take into consideration is the fact of why Joe would choose TNA over the WWE. He probably believed when he signed with the company that he would get on TV and he would be used properly instead of basically wrestling for money as you put it. Otherwise, why wouldn't he have picked the WWE in the first place? I'm sure he would have gotten more out of the 'E'. Most likely the goals/vision of the company over the course of Joe's run changed and it's left Joe angry because what he imagined TNA would be didn't exactly pan out and the company just turned into a mini-WWE. Again, not defending Joe. Simply attempting to discuss his rationale. Because if that was what was going to happen, why shouldn't he have just signed on with the WWE in the first place?



I've always said that ROH production has been shitty. I believe I even complained about the commentary on the Driven PPV. Audio was much more inproved on the Man Up. Anyway, I understand the majority of what you're talking about I agree with you.

Going back to my 'disheartened' comments though, I want take a moment to speak my mind. When I use the internet, I use it as a tool to find new and interesting things to expand my horizons whether it be wrestling, music (just look at my mix CD thread where I gave everyone an blank check on whatever music people wanted to suggest), movies, and whatever else.

I find it disheartening that people would rather use the internet to try and reinforce what they already know instead of using the net to and seek out new and different things. The idea had nothing to do with RoH, even though that was the catalyst.

That is specifically what I found disheartening.

It's not that no one had anything to say about RoH and I started to whine about it. It's that no one has anything to say about ANY kind of wrestling that is not WWE/TNA even if they are given the opportunity to check out whatever else for free. I've almost never seen any kind of discussion over the majority of the matches Jay is kind enough to throw up. It doesn't make me angry. It just makes me feel like people are close minded in general. Not attacking anyone. Just talking.[/quote]

I see what you're talking about... but you gotta see the other point of view. If we're WWE and TNA fans, that's what we're gonna be into and that's what we're gonna be into talking about. The only reason I know about ROH is cuz of guys like you and Jay.. and I appreciate you guys for introducing me to it. I've enjoyed a lot of the shows and some of the stuff I've downloaded from the links posted by ROH fans in the wrestling threads... but it's not my favorite promotion, and it's not the type of thing where you even can talk about it every week unless you're constantly downloading a different show each week. Unlike the televised stuff, ROH only has PPV's aired... Now I usually don't pay for wrestling so I rarely end up watching PPV's when they actually air... One of the things that makes the wrestling thread unique is that we all comment on stuff while it's actually airing. That's why TNA and RAW discussion are the most popular features of the threads.

You just gotta understand bro... we're mostly TNA and WWE fans. That means we like other stuff too but if it's not going to air weekly.. it's something we have to keep up with, which is difficult at times.. I personally have a pretty busy schedule. Most weeks, I only catch about 2 hours of wrestling total. Sometimes, I get around 10 hours viewed... People are busy yaknow?
 
[quote name='PhrostByte']I see what you're talking about... but you gotta see the other point of view. If we're WWE and TNA fans, that's what we're gonna be into and that's what we're gonna be into talking about. The only reason I know about ROH is cuz of guys like you and Jay.. and I appreciate you guys for introducing me to it. I've enjoyed a lot of the shows and some of the stuff I've downloaded from the links posted by ROH fans in the wrestling threads... but it's not my favorite promotion, and it's not the type of thing where you even can talk about it every week unless you're constantly downloading a different show each week. Unlike the televised stuff, ROH only has PPV's aired... Now I usually don't pay for wrestling so I rarely end up watching PPV's when they actually air... One of the things that makes the wrestling thread unique is that we all comment on stuff while it's actually airing. That's why TNA and RAW discussion are the most popular features of the threads.

You just gotta understand bro... we're mostly TNA and WWE fans. That means we like other stuff too but if it's not going to air weekly.. it's something we have to keep up with, which is difficult at times.. I personally have a pretty busy schedule. Most weeks, I only catch about 2 hours of wrestling total. Sometimes, I get around 10 hours viewed... People are busy yaknow?[/quote]

You're basically reinforcing my comment about people using the net to reinforce what they already know instead of using the net to try and experience something different.
 
[quote name='Zen Davis']You're basically reinforcing my comment about people using the net to reinforce what they already know instead of using the net to try and experience something different.[/quote]

Yeah, I am.. and I think you missed my point, because my point was... that's OK. It's good to expand your horizons.. it's good to try things different. But I think everything should be done in moderation, including trying new things.

TNA is my favorite company... and yeah I like ROH too... but when Thursday rolls around.. I'm gonna be here talking about TNA. And other days of the week.. if I have time to watch WWE or ROH.. I might talk about that as well.

My point is, you need to just let go and let people enjoy what they're used to. Sure, you might think ROH is the best thing since sliced bread and want to spread the word... but not everyone is receptive and you just need to accept that. Just let go... :]
 
[quote name='PhrostByte']Yeah, I am.. and I think you missed my point, because my point was... that's OK. It's good to expand your horizons.. it's good to try things different. But I think everything should be done in moderation, including trying new things.

TNA is my favorite company... and yeah I like ROH too... but when Thursday rolls around.. I'm gonna be here talking about TNA. And other days of the week.. if I have time to watch WWE or ROH.. I might talk about that as well.

My point is, you need to just let go and let people enjoy what they're used to. Sure, you might think ROH is the best thing since sliced bread and want to spread the word... but not everyone is receptive and you just need to accept that. Just let go... :][/quote]
I never said you must watch ROH. I never said you must watch PWG. I never said you must watch OVW or any other wrestling promotion that doesn't have a national cable deal in the United States.

All I said was that I find it disheartening that more people aren't willing to open the door, take a peak, and spark a discussion, and that wasn't only regarding RoH. It was regarding every single wrestling promotion in the world.

Don't misconstrue what I said and don't patronize me.

For example -

Pro Wrestling NOAH
Kenta/Marufuji - 29.10.06

Part 1 - http://youtube.com/watch?v=szWRcvNtQIA
Part 2 - http://youtube.com/watch?v=VBXXNBXPf6c
Part 3 - http://youtube.com/watch?v=bNNsMotevd0
Part 4 - http://youtube.com/watch?v=bhdYUm1UqKo
 
[quote name='JaytheGamefan']TNA's business plummeting could be bad news for the industry as a whole because it could easily take way the one company that was able to get a national TV deal after WCW's death, and make the most inroads of any post-WCW startup groups.

One potential upside to their business clearly failing is that it could FINALLY shake up Dixie Carter and make her realize that serious, positive, long-term changes need to be made. None of this "let's make a NEW GIMMICK MATCH, THAT'LL FIX THINGS!" bullshit - a long-term plan for both the wrestlers and the company as a whole need to be crafted, because treading water isn't something TNA can afford to do. They've done it for far too long, and now they're paying for it.[/QUOTE]

Well said.

TNA doesn't really need to change their production all that much. It's a little corny, I agree, but it's the characters and in-ring product that needs substantial work. They need to get back to basics, really. I'm frankly surprised that Kurt Angle has gone back to "dork heel" status when (IIRC) he greatly prefers the "bad ass shooter heel" persona.

Have wrestling matches that mean something, reinforce the separation between the divisions, fewer worked shoots, pandering to smart marks, shitting on WWE, reduce the amount of grievous bodily harm Abyss puts himself through, learn to have people sell their match wounds in later programs...I could go on and on.

Whoever is booking TNA is doing so with this philosophy that claims "unpredictability and shattering standards will draw viewers." Which, as we see with
Steiner's X-title match
, is a dreadful, dreadful idea. Moreover, it's booking that takes Jay Lethal, who just scored a hard-earned (clean!) win over Kurt Angle, and makes him into a squash boy later that night and a 4-minute jobber on the next Impact. It's no continuity, and it's crap.

I suggest giving DemoMan's "wrestling match" match a try.

I want TNA to succeed, if only because I'd like to see good pro wrestling on television, and I know for a damn fact that we'll never see it happen in the WWE. I think TNA has all the resources to put together a damn, damn, damn good product, but having Dutch Mantel and Vince Russo writing the product is a terrible idea. There is an unemployed fat, bald Jewish man living in is parents' basement who should be perfect for the role.

I would bring in three new talents, though, with no apologies to any of the current talent who thinks they deserve something. They've done fuck all for ratings, and were employed at the time of the buyrate slump, so tough shit for them. They can bitch about their spot once the company turns a profit.

So, first, clean house. Guys to get rid of (not guys I don't like, but guys to get rid of from a business perspective):
BG James, Black Reign, Chris Harris, Christopher Daniels, Elix Skipper, Johnny Devine, Kip James, Lance Hoyt, Matt Morgan, Rick Steiner, Ron Killings, Shark Boy, and Sting.

My "maybe, maybe not" list includes James Storm and Jackie, as well as SoCal Val and Ms. Brooks.

Now, put Heyman in as the booker, with Jarrett and someone else (Nash? I dunno) as co-writers. Of course, take Nash off TV as a part of that.

Bring in Sandman, Sabu, and RVD. I'd also steal Claudio Castignoli, Larry Sweeney, and Jack Evans from ROH.

Change the gimmicks of Eric Young and AJ Styles. No more "goofy." Not until we make money.

Focus on putting on excellent matches, stressing the importance of clean wrestling, feuds based in the real world, a 75% reduction in gimmicked matches, strictly enforced divisions of talent (b/w heavyweight and "x"), meaningful interviews (e.g., do more "cut-ins" during matches, so you can have your cake and eat it too - like old WWF Superstars programming, or like they did with a few episodes of ECW a year back), and treating the people in the promotion like genuine, respectable athletes, and not freakshow gimmicks.

TNA can PM me for my salary requirements. ;)
 
[quote name='Zen Davis']I never said you must watch ROH. I never said you must watch PWG. I never said you must watch OVW or any other wrestling promotion that doesn't have a national cable deal in the United States.

All I said was that I find it disheartening that more people aren't willing to open the door, take a peak, and spark a discussion, and that wasn't only regarding RoH. It was regarding every single wrestling promotion in the world.

Don't misconstrue what I said and don't patronize me.

For example -

Pro Wrestling NOAH
Kenta/Marufuji - 29.10.06

Part 1 - http://youtube.com/watch?v=szWRcvNtQIA
Part 2 - http://youtube.com/watch?v=VBXXNBXPf6c
Part 3 - http://youtube.com/watch?v=bNNsMotevd0
Part 4 - http://youtube.com/watch?v=bhdYUm1UqKo[/quote]
Umm. I think you're getting a little ahead of yourself there.. I doubt I was either misconstruing what you said or patronizing you... I mean.. if you think I'm wrong in my assumptions. Tell me how. You seem to want to share what you feel is superior wrestling.. yet you're a little pissed off that a lot of the time your efforts go to waste, right? Well.. my message to you is, relax. The people who want to will and the people who don't won't. :\
 
[quote name='PhrostByte']Umm. I think you're getting a little ahead of yourself there.. I doubt I was either misconstruing what you said or patronizing you... I mean.. if you think I'm wrong in my assumptions. Tell me how. You seem to want to share what you feel is superior wrestling.. yet you're a little pissed off that a lot of the time your efforts go to waste, right? Well.. my message to you is, relax. The people who want to will and the people who don't won't. :\[/quote]
According to The Wrestling Observer, I just posted what was the second best match of 2006 as voted by nearly 2000 people, so a lot of people felt it was "superior wrestling."

Either way, your issue at hand is that you believe you are free to watch and like whatever you want and you're correct in that belief, although that answer is a cop out because it requires no further intelligent response beyond it feels good, so I do it.

I thus am free to believe that people should be more open minded, which is exactly what I've said respectfully a number of times. I haven't pointed fingers and I haven't said names. I just stated how I felt. Some people may taken the comments personally, but I never pointed to anyone.

It was just a thought on my mind and Myke and a number of others discussed their thoughts and opinions and I respect them for taking the time to do so.

[quote name='mykevermin']TNA doesn't really need to change their production all that much. It's a little corny, I agree, but it's the characters and in-ring product that needs substantial work.[/quote]
I don't know man. People will settle for a lot of crap as long as the asthetics are pleasing to watch. It happens in films and music all the time.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']TNA doesn't really need to change their production all that much. It's a little corny, I agree, but it's the characters and in-ring product that needs substantial work.[/quote]

I don't know man. People will settle for a lot of crap as long as the asthetics are pleasing.
 
Just to give my POV on this...I'd heard of RoH but never really paid much attention to it since there was no show or PPV's. Ordering DVD's seemd like too much of a hassle. Finally, after seeing Zen posting consistently and enthusiastically (without being a fanboy) about RoH I finally started checking in to it this year. I really like what I've seen. RoH has a product that I very much enjoy and I don't feel like I'm being pandered to with it. That's exactly the impression I get from WWE and the reason I stopped watching ECW last December and Raw a little over 2 months ago. Not even Jericho was able to get me to turn Raw back on. I still watch Smackdown since you can actually still see wrestling there. You can usually see 2 matches that go, on average, 10 minutes each. I still have a soft spot for TNA even though they've been dropping the ball lately. They provide the only TV alternative to WWE, plus I've always liked an underdog.

Anyway, I'm glad Zen has been faithful in trumpeting RoH. It drew me in and I'm very pleased with it. Easily the most entertaining wrestling I'm watching now. Thanks, Zen.
 
[quote name='Zen Davis']According to The Wrestling Observer, I just posted what was the second best match of 2006 as voted by nearly 2000 people, so a lot of people felt it was "superior wrestling."[/quote]
This isn't the issue... I'm sure it was good. The point is that people are going to like whatever they like... and you can't really blame them for it.

Either way, your issue at hand is that you believe you are free to watch and like whatever you want and you're correct in that belief, although that answer is a cop out because it requires no further intelligent response beyond it feels good, so I do it.
Click to expand...
Here's where we differ. You basically deem it as an intellectual inadequecy to not seek out the best of whatever it is you're interested in. It's not about doing it cuz it feels good. It's about time management. I watch TNA because that's my favorite wrestling show. I also watch other wrestling shows... the "other time" is further sub-divided into time watching companies I feel to be inferior, yet I still watch due to interest and historical reasons.. like WWE, and companies that I feel might have "superior wrestling", but I'm simply not as into.. like ROH and some japanese stuff... Frankly, I don't have time to watch every single ROH show you post up, even though I appreciate that you do. And I think I can speak for others too... I'm sure there are a lot of people who appreciate what you do. Some of those watch the stuff and enjoy it, others watch it and don't, and some don't watch it. But you really can't just jump to the conclusion that not seeking out a superior product is an intellectual cop-out... instead I'd say that the desire to constantly do so might indicate more of an intellectual need for compensation...
 
[quote name='Zen Davis']I don't know man. People will settle for a lot of crap as long as the asthetics are pleasing to watch. It happens in films and music all the time.[/QUOTE]

Using my own "Norbit" theory against me, are ya? ;)

neo, don't sweat it. Three weeks in, and Jericho's already stale, IMO. It's the exact same product.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Well said.

TNA doesn't really need to change their production all that much. It's a little corny, I agree, but it's the characters and in-ring product that needs substantial work. They need to get back to basics, really. I'm frankly surprised that Kurt Angle has gone back to "dork heel" status when (IIRC) he greatly prefers the "bad ass shooter heel" persona.

Have wrestling matches that mean something, reinforce the separation between the divisions, fewer worked shoots, pandering to smart marks, shitting on WWE, reduce the amount of grievous bodily harm Abyss puts himself through, learn to have people sell their match wounds in later programs...I could go on and on.

Whoever is booking TNA is doing so with this philosophy that claims "unpredictability and shattering standards will draw viewers." Which, as we see with
Steiner's X-title match
, is a dreadful, dreadful idea. Moreover, it's booking that takes Jay Lethal, who just scored a hard-earned (clean!) win over Kurt Angle, and makes him into a squash boy later that night and a 4-minute jobber on the next Impact. It's no continuity, and it's crap.

I suggest giving DemoMan's "wrestling match" match a try.

I want TNA to succeed, if only because I'd like to see good pro wrestling on television, and I know for a damn fact that we'll never see it happen in the WWE. I think TNA has all the resources to put together a damn, damn, damn good product, but having Dutch Mantel and Vince Russo writing the product is a terrible idea. There is an unemployed fat, bald Jewish man living in is parents' basement who should be perfect for the role.

I would bring in three new talents, though, with no apologies to any of the current talent who thinks they deserve something. They've done fuck all for ratings, and were employed at the time of the buyrate slump, so tough shit for them. They can bitch about their spot once the company turns a profit.

So, first, clean house. Guys to get rid of (not guys I don't like, but guys to get rid of from a business perspective):
BG James, Black Reign, Chris Harris, Christopher Daniels, Elix Skipper, Johnny Devine, Kip James, Lance Hoyt, Matt Morgan, Rick Steiner, Ron Killings, Shark Boy, and Sting.

My "maybe, maybe not" list includes James Storm and Jackie, as well as SoCal Val and Ms. Brooks.

Now, put Heyman in as the booker, with Jarrett and someone else (Nash? I dunno) as co-writers. Of course, take Nash off TV as a part of that.

Bring in Sandman, Sabu, and RVD. I'd also steal Claudio Castignoli, Larry Sweeney, and Jack Evans from ROH.

Change the gimmicks of Eric Young and AJ Styles. No more "goofy." Not until we make money.

Focus on putting on excellent matches, stressing the importance of clean wrestling, feuds based in the real world, a 75% reduction in gimmicked matches, strictly enforced divisions of talent (b/w heavyweight and "x"), meaningful interviews (e.g., do more "cut-ins" during matches, so you can have your cake and eat it too - like old WWF Superstars programming, or like they did with a few episodes of ECW a year back), and treating the people in the promotion like genuine, respectable athletes, and not freakshow gimmicks.

TNA can PM me for my salary requirements. ;)[/QUOTE]

I don't agree with all of them, but you do have some mighty fine ideas there. Granted, I've been saying TNA should have ditched Russo for Heyman since Heyman left the WWE almost a year ago.

I wish TNA would understand that they need to be as different from WWE as possible. Yes, they look different, what with a 6-sided ring and TV studio as an arena, but underneath all that lies the same exact problems with WWE.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']So, first, clean house. Guys to get rid of (not guys I don't like, but guys to get rid of from a business perspective):
BG James, Black Reign, Chris Harris, Christopher Daniels, Elix Skipper, Johnny Devine, Kip James, Lance Hoyt, Matt Morgan, Rick Steiner, Ron Killings, Shark Boy, and Sting.[/QUOTE]
Christopher Daniels?
 
One thing I'd like to see TNA change about their production is NOT HAVING 500 CAMERA ANGLES DURING A FIVE MINUTE MATCH, that, and not immediately cutting to the back for some skit after either a big match or a title change. TNA needs to allow these types of things to breathe if they expect them to mean anything, and instead of doing that, they seem to be obsessed with making sure their broadcasts move by at the fastest pace humanly possible so that no viewer on Earth could possibly be bored.
 
[quote name='PhrostByte']This isn't the issue... I'm sure it was good. The point is that people are going to like whatever they like... and you can't really blame them for it.[/quote]
It isn't about whether it's good or not. It's about whether the wrestling has enough legitimacy for it to be worth checking out. You may still hate it.

Sporadic, for example, thought the ladder match on the RoH PPV was overrated and I respect that opinion because he took the time (and money) to give the show a chance. You're already declaring things inferior without giving them time and thus your opinions lack all credibility.

The only reason I posted that KENTA vs. Marufuji match was to see whether you would give it time before declaring it something silly like "inferior" without watching it and you've done exactly that. As such, this isn't a line of conversation I want to continue with you since your answers on this topic lack merit.

Here's where we differ. You basically deem it as an intellectual inadequecy to not seek out the best of whatever it is you're interested in. It's not about doing it cuz it feels good. It's about time management. I watch TNA because that's my favorite wrestling show. I also watch other wrestling shows... the "other time" is further sub-divided into time watching companies I feel to be inferior, yet I still watch due to interest and historical reasons.. like WWE, and companies that I feel might have "superior wrestling", but I'm simply not as into.. like ROH and some japanese stuff... Frankly, I don't have time to watch every single ROH show you post up, even though I appreciate that you do. And I think I can speak for others too... I'm sure there are a lot of people who appreciate what you do. Some of those watch the stuff and enjoy it, others watch it and don't, and some don't watch it. But you really can't just jump to the conclusion that not seeking out a superior product is an intellectual cop-out... instead I'd say that the desire to constantly do so might indicate more of an intellectual need for compensation...
Click to expand...
All this is a giant block of rationalization for my calling your response out as a 'cop out'. You did the same thing in the heroin thread.

Remember when that fox that said, "Those grapes were probably sour anyway."

That's you.
 
[quote name='Zen Davis']Sporadic, for example, thought the ladder match on the RoH PPV was overrated and I respect that opinion because he took the time (and money) to give the show a chance. You're already declaring things inferior without giving them time and thus your opinions lack all credibility.

The only reason I posted that KENTA vs. Marufuji match was to see whether you would give it time before declaring it something silly like "inferior" without watching it and you've done exactly that. As such, this isn't a line of conversation I want to continue with you since your answers on this topic lack merit.[/quote]

Did I say I felt that it was inferior? I think I did the opposite actually. If you feel like it.. maybe we should play some post tag? Cuz it seems you're putting words in my mouth..
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Using my own "Norbit" theory against me, are ya? ;)[/quote]
It's just something that I'd been pondering for a while as to why I don't get into TNA as much even though the company still has the wrestlers I love like Joe, Homicide, Shelly, Sabin, etc. I feel production is one of the main problems. The other is that TNA needs to get the fuck out of Florida. Those fans have taken TNA for granted and it shows.
 
[quote name='Brak']Christopher Daniels?[/QUOTE]

Hell no. TNA needs to go back to focusing on AJ, Joe, and Daniels. The matches between those guys were the best thing that TNA has ever done.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']Hell no. TNA needs to go back to focusing on AJ, Joe, and Daniels. The matches between those guys were the best thing that TNA has ever done.[/quote]

Daniels is an awesome wrestler but it takes a special effort from the booker to make people give a damn about him in a meaningful role.
 
The banner at the top of the page is promoting a 3 hour Raw this Monday with a picture of...The Rock.:rofl: Maybe HE'S going to save us next.:lol:
 
The Rock seems to have washed his hands of his wrestling career. He has refused every offer to show up since the very first diva search, which was his last WWE appearance.

Should fans have animosity towards him for "turning his back," or is he wise in either staying away entirely, or waiting until the moment is "right"?

EDIT: for a proper frame of reference, remember that it was Christy Hemme who won the first Diva Search. All I remember about it is that, and at some point, one of the contestants called another a "cum-guzzling gutter slut" on national television. :shock:
 
[quote name='mykevermin']The Rock seems to have washed his hands of his wrestling career. He has refused every offer to show up since the very first diva search, which was his last WWE appearance.

Should fans have animosity towards him for "turning his back," or is he wise in either staying away entirely, or waiting until the moment is "right"?

EDIT: for a proper frame of reference, remember that it was Christy Hemme who won the first Diva Search. All I remember about it is that, and at some point, one of the contestants called another a "cum-guzzling gutter slut" on national television. :shock:[/QUOTE]

Didn't he have a taped jumbotron video pre-Mania?
 
- Matt Sydal defeated Mike Kruel at last night's OVW TV tapings to become the new OVW Heavyweight Champion.

OVW spoilers to satisfy the smarks, so don't feel too afraid to click on it.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']
- Matt Sydal defeated Mike Kruel at last night's OVW TV tapings to become the new OVW Heavyweight Champion.

OVW spoilers to satisfy the smarks, so don't feel too afraid to click on it.[/quote]

Whoa!
 
[quote name='mykevermin']The Rock seems to have washed his hands of his wrestling career. He has refused every offer to show up since the very first diva search, which was his last WWE appearance.

Should fans have animosity towards him for "turning his back," or is he wise in either staying away entirely, or waiting until the moment is "right"?

[/quote]

I think he is wise for staying away.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']
- Matt Sydal defeated Mike Kruel at last night's OVW TV tapings to become the new OVW Heavyweight Champion.

OVW spoilers to satisfy the smarks, so don't feel too afraid to click on it.[/quote]

Wow that's pretty big. How was the match?
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']I think he is wise for staying away.[/QUOTE]

Why do you think that? I don't disagree, but I'm curious why people think he's wise, or why they would think he's turned his back on wrestling and wrestling fans.

I see I was wrong about his last appearance, as he did do a pretape to promote McMahon/Trump.

[quote name='Purple Flames']Wow that's pretty big. How was the match?[/QUOTE]

I didn't get to see it, but since it was announced today, it's likely it happened last night, which is when they tape their TV shows. We *may* be a week behind, so worst case scenario, it'll be on next Saturday. I've really got to figure out how to capture video now that I have a cable box; if I can, I'll be sure to cap the show for y'all.

They are in Cincinnati Saturday night, but I have a friend's baby's 1 year birthday party to attend a few hours beforehand, so I'm not certain I'll be able to get to that. The last show there, he was selling t-shirts that featured silhouettes of him doing the SSP overtop the state of Missouri. Kinda neat, but nothing I'd wear.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']Hell no. TNA needs to go back to focusing on AJ, Joe, and Daniels. The matches between those guys were the best thing that TNA has ever done.[/quote]

Amen.. their Unbreakable 05 match was my favorite ever.. perfect in every way. =P~

About the spoiler thing.. you sure he won that belt? Not the AJ's-little-brother-who-ruins-AJ's-slumber-parties championship?
 
[quote name='JJSP']Matt Sydal as a "heavyweight" at 175 lbs. is hilarious.[/quote]

OMG dude you spoiled it.. it was supposed to be cereal. :(
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Why do you think that? I don't disagree, but I'm curious why people think he's wise, or why they would think he's turned his back on wrestling and wrestling fans.

I see I was wrong about his last appearance, as he did do a pretape to promote McMahon/Trump.[/quote]

Part of the reason I think he is wise for staying away because he has nothing left to prove in WWE. He has no desire to wrestle again, and unlike Austin there is nothing physically holding him back from doing so. The fans want to see him in the ring as much as hear him talk and if he isn't willing to do that then it's smart of him to just let the wrestling part of his life go. Frankly, I wish more wrestlers would know when to quit. Of course, not everyone has a nice WWE contract to live off of either.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']
- Matt Sydal defeated Mike Kruel at last night's OVW TV tapings to become the new OVW Heavyweight Champion.

OVW spoilers to satisfy the smarks, so don't feel too afraid to click on it.[/quote]
Where the fuck that did match come from? Last time I checked, he was in a feud with Atlas Da Bone.

As for the 15th anniversary of Raw, Trish Stratus has already pulled out from the show. WWE is now promoting Lita as the returning diva.
 
Lita never pulls out. Harharhar. Wait, that doesn't make any sense.

Anyhow, I too saw the Raw banner with the Rock on it. I miss him but if I were in his shoes (his $500 shoes), I'd steer clear of WWE at the moment as well. There's the whole Chris Benoit thing which was followed by all the steroid stuff. No need to dirty my hands with that at the moment. That being said, we better be getting a 9-10 hour long Rock DVD set at some point complete with hours of interviews. I'm sick of watching them in youtube-vision.
 
[quote name='Halo05']Lita never pulls out. Harharhar. Wait, that doesn't make any sense.[/quote]

Yes it does, :puke:


I don't blame the Rock for what he's done. True the WWE fans made him a star, but with the way programming has been lately, the steroid scandals, and the aforementioned Benoit fiasco, I can see wanting to keep a safe distance for the time being.

I'm sure we'll see the Rock again at some point, although I doubt he ever competes. Wasn't his last match a loss at WM, tagging with Foley against Evolution?

I dunno, if it were me, I'd come back at some point, but I really don't blame him for not wanting to wrestle given the toll that takes on your body vs making movies. Not to mention the pay-off for them both.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']Part of the reason I think he is wise for staying away because he has nothing left to prove in WWE. He has no desire to wrestle again, and unlike Austin there is nothing physically holding him back from doing so. The fans want to see him in the ring as much as hear him talk and if he isn't willing to do that then it's smart of him to just let the wrestling part of his life go. Frankly, I wish more wrestlers would know when to quit. Of course, not everyone has a nice WWE contract to live off of either.[/quote]
Along with depositing millions from various movie studios.
 
[quote name='PhrostByte']Amen.. their Unbreakable 05 match was my favorite ever.. perfect in every way. =P~[/QUOTE]

I still feel that Unbreakable 05 is one of TNA's best PPV ever too. The last hour alone made this TNA mark really happy.

A- Raven defending the NWA World Title against Rhino in a no DQ hardcore match that yes includes a shopping cart spot. :drool:
B- The AJ/Daniels/Joe three way. :drool: :drool: :drool:

Hell the summer of 05 in general is one of my favorite times in TNA history in regards of PPVs at least. The rise of Joe in TNA, the short rebirth fued between Jerry Lynn and Sean Waltman, Raven's short NWA title run, etc etc etc. I need to revisit those PPVs soon.
 
Thanks for the input Guile and Halo. I'm not sure how to feel about The Rock (I damn sure miss his promos, at the very least). I don't know how much stock I'd put in Benoit affecting his decisions, as he's been staying away since the summer of 2004, with the one exception.
 
I still say they should make A.J. Styles a Rob Van Dam type heel.

Shift that straight-up goofiness towards a goofy arrogance, have him talk mad shit and just have him absolutely bring the noise in his matches.
 
Damn. I just watched Sandman's entrance at One Night stand and I gotta say that is one of the coolest things I have ever seen in wrestling.
 
TNA had an incredible run in the summer of '05 when they didn't have a national TV deal and just put on great shows (particularly PPVs) because they knew they had to at least maintain their reputation as being THE place to go for quality wrestling. Boy, what a difference two years makes.
 
TNA still did have Impact on TV. It was aired in the few markets that still carried Xplosion. In fact I remember vividly watching the torrent sites waiting for an Xvid of Xplosion to surface since I hated watching the webcast of Impact.
 
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