VA Tech tragedy. 33 dead. *Shooter sent photos and video to NBC*

I don't understand what the people who think the school should have done more want.

Colleges are not a likely spot for this kind of thing to happen and if VA is anything like Madison, there would be no effective way to get the word out to everyone.

An all campus lockdown, assuming you could even get the word out to everyone, which you can't, wouldn't have done shit and neither would an email:
--he went straight to the dorms to start shooting people
--then he went to a classroom, where nobody would get an email and shot people there
--if they would've locked down campus, he would've gone back to the dorms and started shooting people there again.

that leaves us with one option-- having people run around screaming "there has been a shooting! A gunman is on the loose!" etc. etc. and that would only cause problems.
this is a really stupid thing to be an armchair analyst about though...I don't think anyone could predict that the guy would shoot 30 more people and it would suck to have to make a decision about the course of action. It's not a black and white event at all and the school isn't to blame.
 
You can never please everyone, and hindsight is always 20/20. Now we say they should have locked everyone down, but if it was just a domestic, isolated incident and everyone was locked down for 4 hours just to be told "Oh... it was nothing. Sorry about that." people would've been pissed.

Same thing as Strell mentioned with the ATHF "bombs". Most everyone said it was really dumb to lockdown that area, yet if they really were bombs and nothing was done everyone would say that it was dumb not to lock down the area.
 
My friend made a good point just now. Think about how sickening this is. 32 people getting blasted. This kind of shit happens all the time in Iraq, and we just gloss over it flipping through the paper. Makes me stop and think about what people go through over there on an every day basis...
 
[quote name='sixersballernum3']You can never please everyone, and hindsight is always 20/20. Now we say they should have locked everyone down, but if it was just a domestic, isolated incident and everyone was locked down for 4 hours just to be told "Oh... it was nothing. Sorry about that." people would've been pissed.

Same thing as Strell mentioned with the ATHF "bombs". Most everyone said it was really dumb to lockdown that area, yet if they really were bombs and nothing was done everyone would say that it was dumb not to lock down the area.[/QUOTE]


exactly.

still, I'd love to know how you "lock down" a major campus.
 
[quote name='Apossum']exactly.

still, I'd love to know how you "lock down" a major campus.[/QUOTE]

yea its 99.9% impossible to "lock down" a University.
 
[quote name='H-Town Info']yea its 99.9% impossible to "lock down" a University.[/quote]

As someone who has worked on a college campus for most of my adult life, and as someone who has set foot on the VT campus on numerous occasions, it is impossible to lockdown any college or university. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.
 
My thoughts and prayers go out to the families.






Would the media stop fucking feeding Jack Thompson. It is just a little early to be jumping in with his expert (by Fox News standards) opinion. If Doom trained me, I should be an expert rifleman. Only made sharpshooter. Just boggles my friggin mind. Hold this mouse, does it feel like a fucking rifle? This guy has no class or dignity.

As for playing hero or not, I'm pretty sure I would do what I can to protect those around me. I would not think any less of anyone else. When it is my time to go, it's my time to go.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']As someone who has worked on a college campus for most of my adult life, and as someone who has set foot on the VT campus on numerous occasions, it is impossible to lockdown any college or university. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.[/quote]

I have to agree--there's no way to completely lock down a place like a University with a sprawling campus and many buildings, dorms, and residences to hide in. Even the military needs some planning time to do something on that scale.

But I think the main complaints from the other CAGs and VT students themselves is that the University should have immediately notifed all faculty and staff to suspend classes and University activities after the first shooting. That they let things continue just because they didn't find the suspect is unbelievable and obviously ended up being a huge mistake.

Hopefully this sets some kind of precedent in their communincations process that will make it easier for them to relay emergency messages to everyone.

And what the heck--did this thread get digged? The forums are friggin' slow now.
 
You could try to lock down the college, you can tell everyone to stay in the biuldings because after they locked downed the place (after the second attack) everyone pretty much listened. So it would have worked if they did it sooner. They didn't even tell the people in the biulding next door that shots were fired. The school fucked up and 30 people died because of it.
 
People are sad.....Search Virginia Tech shooting, murder, massacre etc on Ebay....

Nice how they are offering 125K to charity if you give him another 125K. :roll:


Crazy crazy tragedy today..:cry:
 
[quote name='sixersballernum3']You can never please everyone, and hindsight is always 20/20. Now we say they should have locked everyone down, but if it was just a domestic, isolated incident and everyone was locked down for 4 hours just to be told "Oh... it was nothing. Sorry about that." people would've been pissed.[/QUOTE]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

And I say things good, too.

I think we all need to not worry about Thomson just yet. As far as I can tell, he's been on one show (FNC) for a short interview. We're reacting because of we expect him to get himself and his cause involved. And you know what? You're probably right.

I can't help but feel that waiting for Thomson to speak on these shows, writing thorough and deep refutations to his claims (namely the complete and utter lack of empirical evidence that video games or rock music has had anything to do with shootings in the past and in the present), and submit them to CNN, submit them to your local papers, submit them as op-eds, submit them to well-known blogs...as individuals, your voice is no longer as limited as it was in the pre-internet age. In short, complaining about Thomson on a forum won't get you that far, but there are avenues for calling him out on his baseless claims, his hyperbolic-laden accusations, his childish demeanor, and the fact that he post-hocs every fucking bit of evidence he's compiled, and those avenues are accessible by a large number of people.

Thank you technology. Use it to your advantage.
 
[quote name='David85']You could try to lock down the college, you can tell everyone to stay in the biuldings because after they locked downed the place (after the second attack) everyone pretty much listened. So it would have worked if they did it sooner. They didn't even tell the people in the biulding next door that shots were fired. The school fucked up and 30 people died because of it.[/QUOTE]


you're wrong, the school isn't to blame. nobody could've predicted the guy was going to shoot 30 people. it's not like "trying to lockdown the school" = safety for everyone. He wouldn't have said "oh, they locked the college down, darn that really puts a hitch in my plans...guess I'll go masturbate to some porn"

He would've shot people regardless.

once again, how do you even begin to organize 25,000+ students and lock down buildings in a matter of hours without a centralized message system?
 
[quote name='lanzarlaluna']My friend made a good point just now. Think about how sickening this is. 32 people getting blasted. This kind of shit happens all the time in Iraq, and we just gloss over it flipping through the paper. Makes me stop and think about what people go through over there on an every day basis...[/quote]

That was my thought too.

I don't gloss over the deaths due to the Iraq war, but I think most of America does.

I am absolutely shocked at how much media play this gets - when compared to the anemic coverage of American soldier deaths in the Iraq war (up to 3300)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/16/AR2007041600825.html
 
It doesn't really matter anyway, the media is already demonizing those in charge for doing the wrong thing even though they barely know what happened, and Orielly has already come out blasting the college as horrible, etc and claims to know exactly what happened.

We all know this is going to turn out bad no matter what really happened.
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']Is there a reason why they haven't released the shooter's name yet?[/quote]

My guess is for the safety of his parents and family.
 
[quote name='camoor']That was my thought too.

I don't gloss over the deaths due to the Iraq war, but I think most of America does.

I am absolutely shocked at how much media play this gets - when compared to the anemic coverage of American soldier deaths in the Iraq war (up to 3300)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/16/AR2007041600825.html[/QUOTE]

I hear something about the death toll pretty much every day and I don't look that hard.

There's a war over there. we expect people to die in Iraq. There isn't a war here, people aren't supposed to be going crazy shooting up college campuses. Yes, the Iraq war is tragic, but try not to use this event to prop yourself up above everyone else.
 
the shooter was shot in the face, so they can't ID him that way, he was carrying no ID, and his fingerprints don't match anyone's
 
Shit.


[quote name='Dead of Knight']Is there a reason why they haven't released the shooter's name yet?[/QUOTE]The article said he had no ID, so that might be why.
 
As a long-time Tech student (undergrad + grad), I'm compelled to throw my two cents in here. No, there isn't a 100% guaranteed way of securing campus, but you *can* take steps to prevent future loss of life: put the campus on lock-down, cancel all classes, and notify the entire student body via email. There aren't that many ways onto campus for off-campus students, so setting up roadblocks to prevent students from accessing the campus wouldn't be out of the question.

Last year when William Morva was on the loose (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Morva), classes were canceled and campus was shut down. I'm astonished that they didn't take the same course of action on this occasion.
 
[quote name='LarryGe']the shooter was shot in the face, so they can't ID him that way, he was carrying no ID, and his fingerprints don't match anyone's[/QUOTE]
Oh ok. Thanks. Though I figure they'd be able to figure it out by now. They probably have but they don't want to release the name without confirming it.
 
[quote name='Apossum']I hear something about the death toll pretty much every day and I don't look that hard.

There's a war over there. we expect people to die in Iraq. There isn't a war here, people aren't supposed to be going crazy shooting up college campuses. Yes, the Iraq war is tragic, but try not to use this event to prop yourself up above everyone else.[/quote]

I'm not above everyone else.

The men and women who volunteered to serve in Iraq - they are the true American heroes. The American public should venerate them in death.

Anna Nicole, Imus, and Sanjaya was bigger news then the 7 American soldiers who died last week.
 
[quote name='camoor']

Anna Nicole, Imus, and Sanjaya was bigger news then the 7 American soldiers who died last week.[/QUOTE]

Bingo, I was pissed that the asshole racists Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson were made Imus used his freedom of speech the same day a few hundred people in Iraq were bombed.
 
[quote name='camoor'] Anna Nicole, Imus, and Sanjaya was bigger news then the 7 American soldiers who died last week.[/quote]

While this can be debated, it has nothing to do with the fact that people dying in a war that they volunteered to jump into cannot be compared to kids dying while in their classroom doing nothing to provoke their killer, possibly not even knowing him. Are they both tragic? Yes. But it isn't shocking that some soldiers died in the midst of a war.
 
[quote name='camoor']I'm not above everyone else.

The men and women who volunteered to serve in Iraq - they are the true American heroes. The American public should venerate them in death.

Anna Nicole, Imus, and Sanjaya was bigger news then the 7 American soldiers who died last week.[/QUOTE]


you wanna go through this every single day? I don't know about you, but the shootings have been on my mind all day and it's the only thing people are talking about here. It's draining on everyone. I agree the news is crap and that we won't hear the end of this story any time soon, but even relatively honest news outlets like NPR only mention the death toll in Iraq, a few of the most recent events there, then move on with it because it's an inevitability.
Today's shooting wasn't.

I see what you mean but a shooting of this scale on a college campus is a big deal regardless of whether the people who died were "heroes" or not. Besides, the time of mourning about iraq is over, now most people are just plain pissed about it.
 
I also deplore the fact that we now so cavalierly gloss over the mounting casualties in Iraq but keep in mind that this shooting is far more disturbing since it shatters the perception of a college campus as a place of safety. Just as Columbine led to heightened (at times "over") reaction to anything that could be perceived as a harbringer of a similar event, the same thing will occur with college campuses across the country.

As to the criticism against the police of not locking down the campus after the first event, I have to say that it's completely justified. Regardless if it was felt that the first shooting was an "isolated" incident, you are still faced with the real possiblity an armed and dangerous individual (who likely has ties to the university) running around campus. I don't think anyone would have faulted the police for "overreacting" in such as case.
 
[quote name='dopa345'] I don't think anyone would have faulted the police for "overreacting" in such as case.[/QUOTE]


logic would have that, but there would be plenty of people demanding their money back for their missed class because they perceived no threat.
 
Oh, awesome, Dr. Phil was just talking about video games glorifying violence on CNN. "The murderers of tomorrow could be the children of today"

Fat sonofa
 
[quote name='crazytalkx']Oh, awesome, Dr. Phil was just talking about video games glorifying violence on CNN. "The murderers of tomorrow could be the children of today"

Fat sonofa[/QUOTE]
God, I hate that guy. Even more now.

Guess CNN thought Jack Thompson was too much of an idiot to have on, so they picked a somewhat lesser idiot.
 
[quote name='crazytalkx']Oh, awesome, Dr. Phil was just talking about video games glorifying violence on CNN. "The murderers of tomorrow could be the children of today"

Fat sonofa[/quote]

Yeah, the history of the world pre-Pong proves that a world without videogames means things will be safer. :roll:

Nothing like an expert talking about shit they have no knowledge about.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']Yeah, the history of the world pre-Pong proves that a world without videogames means things will be safer. :roll:
[/QUOTE]

Hey shut up.

I expect comments like this to be deleted after I go back in time and give Hitler a Turbografx 16.

O Keith Courage, what man can't be drawn to madness under your wily charms?
 
[quote name='PhrostByte']http://vt.facebook.com/photos.php?&id=6202368&l=d1b29&s=0

posted on my IRC channel.[/quote]

This isn't the shooter, the FBI just stopped by my cousins room to interview him and his suite mates. They had a picture of the shooter and ask them if the knew him. This how my cousin describes the picture.

"The photo was blown up from a small photograph and was in black and white,
so it wasn't very clear, but he looked like he could be anywhere from 21-25."

I'm starting to think that the shooter is not a VA Tech student because when you get your Student ID, they take a high quality colored photo for your ID that's stored in a database.

BTW, my cousin knows the ex-gf of the dude in the facebook link. Trust me he's not the shooter.
 
[quote name='MadFlava']This isn't the shooter, the FBI just stopped by my cousins room to interview him and his suite mates. They had a picture of the shooter and ask them if the knew him. This how my cousin describes the picture.

"The photo was blown up from a small photograph and was in black and white,
so it wasn't very clear, but he looked like he could be anywhere from 21-25."

I'm starting to think that the shooter is not a VA Tech student because when you get your Student ID, they take a high quality colored photo for your ID that's stored in a database.

BTW, my cousin knows the ex-gf of the dude in the facebook link. Trust me he's not the shooter.[/QUOTE]


Hmm, thanks for the info. This is really getting interesting. Still extremely tragic, but interesting.
 
My blogo-phon-irc just said this is the shooter:

160px-Kim_Jong_il.jpg


...Seriously, can the internet please stop posting random Asian dudes and saying "ZOMG! VT Shooterz!!11"???

I strongly advise everyone to turn mainstream "news" the fuck off for the next week until this blows over. Unless of course you enjoy seeing the Dr. Phil's of the world blame music/games/anything fun that young people are in to in between segments of sensationalism and false sincerity.

And also please let's try to refrain from urging Congress to shut down the entire country, install tracking implant chips in all citizens, mandate a national biometric ID system, and ban all pointy and blunt objects... It might sound quaint, but some of us actually enjoy our Constitutional rights and freedoms.
 
So, are they sure that the two incidents were committed by the same gunman? If they were, what was the gunman doing for those 2 hours between shootings? I'm sure it takes very little time to walk from incident A to incident B.
 
[quote name='sixersballernum3']So, are they sure that the two incidents were committed by the same gunman? If they were, what was the gunman doing for those 2 hours between shootings? I'm sure it takes very little time to walk from incident A to incident B.[/QUOTE]

It's about 15-20 minutes at a brisk pace.
 
[quote name='sixersballernum3']So, are they sure that the two incidents were committed by the same gunman? If they were, what was the gunman doing for those 2 hours between shootings? I'm sure it takes very little time to walk from incident A to incident B.[/quote]

I've made that walk from West AJ to Norris Hall when I was there and it takes less than 10 minutes. I think I've been able to run it in less than 5 minutes easily, especially if you know the short cut through Hutcheson Hall (I use to work in the labs there).
 
[quote name='MadFlava']This isn't the shooter, the FBI just stopped by my cousins room to interview him and his suite mates. They had a picture of the shooter and ask them if the knew him. This how my cousin describes the picture.

"The photo was blown up from a small photograph and was in black and white,
so it wasn't very clear, but he looked like he could be anywhere from 21-25."

I'm starting to think that the shooter is not a VA Tech student because when you get your Student ID, they take a high quality colored photo for your ID that's stored in a database.

BTW, my cousin knows the ex-gf of the dude in the facebook link. Trust me he's not the shooter.[/quote]
Ok well yea... I never said that was him, some dude from my channel just posted it... Anyway, the more exposure, the better. I'm intruiged to know what was going on with this guy.
 
[quote name='Apossum']logic would have that, but there would be plenty of people demanding their money back for their missed class because they perceived no threat.[/QUOTE]

I disagree with that. A fake bomb threat or something like that is one thing, but if two students were murdered on campus with the perpetrator still at large, I think most parents would appreciate the extra precautions.
 
Just caught the end of Scarborough Country on MSNBC. He told everyone of how his kids were playing a James Bond game and how realistic is was to shoot a real looking person. He was appalled by it. Quick question. Who bought the game? Why are they not keeping up with their kids' activities if they didn't?

It's a never ending cycle of blaming the entertainment industry and not the parents. Yes, the industry can do better. The parents in this country can do alot better.

It's sad to see the media jump all over this like they are.




Again, my thoughts and prayers go out to the families. Hope all our fellow CAGers are safe.
 
[quote name='crazytalkx']Oh, awesome, Dr. Phil was just talking about video games glorifying violence on CNN. "The murderers of tomorrow could be the children of today"

Fat sonofa[/QUOTE]

If I go on Oprah can I be called a doctor too?!
 
[quote name='crazytalkx']Oh, awesome, Dr. Phil was just talking about video games glorifying violence on CNN. "The murderers of tomorrow could be the children of today"

Fat sonofa[/QUOTE]

Did someone call for all the idiots at once?
 
[quote name='sixersballernum3']So, are they sure that the two incidents were committed by the same gunman? If they were, what was the gunman doing for those 2 hours between shootings? I'm sure it takes very little time to walk from incident A to incident B.[/quote]

My personal theory: It probably started sinking in what he'd just done, and just thought he was screwed no matter what, so he flipped, went home and loaded up on ammo and came back to kill just for the hell of it before he took his own life.
 
[quote name='mikej012']My personal theory: It probably started sinking in what he'd just done, and just thought he was screwed no matter what, so he flipped, went home and loaded up on ammo and came back to kill just for the hell of it before he took his own life.[/QUOTE]

That's what I think happened, as well.
 
[quote name='MadFlava']I've made that walk from West AJ to Norris Hall when I was there and it takes less than 10 minutes. I think I've been able to run it in less than 5 minutes easily, especially if you know the short cut through Hutcheson Hall (I use to work in the labs there).[/QUOTE]

It's about a half-of-a-mile in a straight line, but you can't make that trip in a straight line, so 10 sounds about right. 15-20 if you're taking your time. Regardless, I'm surprised he made it across campus without being noticed, unless he walked on the edge of campus or down West Campus Drive, keeping out of the highly-trafficked areas.
 
[quote name='javeryh']Even if I had 100 people behind me I'm not going to be the first one to bum rush a guy with loaded guns that he obviously had no reservations about firing. Also, no one was stupid for not trying to be a hero - they were all probably scared shitless. It's not a Die Hard movie.[/QUOTE]

I tackled a guy with a gun before by myself when I worked in a package store. I don't know how a bunch of students couldn't mob him and overwhelm him.
 
Great, until the SOB's identity is revealed every Asian male is gonna be suspected by the internet.

Guess it's time to pack up my bags and get ready for the internment camp.
 
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